Once again, argument from ignorance. "You don't know everything that god is capable of - its strength, its wisdom, etc. - so you cannot possibly say its immoral." That's a fallacy. The only evidence I can go on is what's presented in the bible. The bible is chock full of examples of god acting deliberately immoral. Christianity itself is predicated on this immorality. Jesus' sacrifice was in answer to original sin, which is literally humanity being held accountable for the sin of the mother. The bible keeps asserting that god is good, in totality, but its actions belie that claim. That's why I continue to scoff. You point to the baseless assertions while I point to the logical inconsistencies and evidential contradictions to those claims.
Put another way: god's actions, as described in the bible, are more important than the mindless, repetitious lip service it's given. The god of your bible acts cruelly, it acts illogically, it acts in a manner that completely undermines how those actions are characterized, and call into question its ability to be those things the authors so clearly want it to be. You're right in that I cannot claim to know everything about god's intentions or long term plan. I can only go with what I do know, which is that the god in your bible, based on its purported actions, is immoral and not worth worshiping. Continuing to put your fingers in your ears, going "la la la, infinite being with mysterious ways" doesn't actually address the point.
Analogy: if I see someone mercilessly beating on their kids, all of the "But he's really a loving father" claims in the world won't make those beatings right, nor will they sway my opinion of them. Now amplify that to a being that cursed a species due to the actions of a mere two, committed genocide several times, and a host of other heinous acts. Saying, "Well, you're not in a position to judge" isn't really accurate. I don't need to hold out for more info to know that it's evil, at least in part.
Furthermore, god's omnipotence and omniscience put to question why it acts in such violent, wasteful ways. I'm a programmer. I look at things through that lens a lot of the time. A big part of my job is creating an environment that gracefully handles errors while continuing to work. God's answer to something that doesn't fit the program (heh)? Throw the computer out the window, go outside, douse it in gasoline, and light it on fire, all while looking at the neighbors and yelling "LET THAT BE A LESSON TO THE REST OF YOU!" A being that wise, that powerful could certainly devise a better system than one that uses people as grist for the mill.
And that's where your continued arguments from ignorance hurts your cause. Well, one of several places. It's not that, as a finite being, I can't grasp god's actual intentions or actions. It's that I, as a finite being, shouldn't be seeing all of these obvious flaws. The best solutions to most problems are elegant, to the point of being almost self-evident. God's system? Crude and wasteful. Billions of people put to the fire every year. And from a being that apparently wants a relationship from us, but is so very angry that we don't do it all on its terms.
The whole thing is a cruel joke. I'm so very happy it's not real.
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Your list of attributes are cute, but for each one that has biblical support, I can point to another part of scripture that contradicts it. So, it's ultimately meaningless. Also keep in mind, I grew up Catholic. I know what your god is supposed to be. I know the mainstream narrative that's bandied about. It's just not accurate to the bible itself. Furthermore, even if it was, that wouldn't be evidence towards its existence. It would just be a clearer definition to work from.
And the reason why I keep bringing up the (non) existence of your god is that everything you write is based on the idea that it does exist. Which is definitely something that's not agreed on. So, for me, I'm attempting to poke holes in the cult of personality the myths propagate by pointing out the conflicts and inconsistencies.
In other words, your stance, from what I gather, is an apologetic one. God exists, you atheists are wrong in your accusations against it, and here's my defense.
My stance is your god doesn't exist based on a certain set of reasons, and even if it did I wouldn't worship it for a separate but related set of reasons.
Put another way: god's actions, as described in the bible, are more important than the mindless, repetitious lip service it's given. The god of your bible acts cruelly, it acts illogically, it acts in a manner that completely undermines how those actions are characterized, and call into question its ability to be those things the authors so clearly want it to be. You're right in that I cannot claim to know everything about god's intentions or long term plan. I can only go with what I do know, which is that the god in your bible, based on its purported actions, is immoral and not worth worshiping. Continuing to put your fingers in your ears, going "la la la, infinite being with mysterious ways" doesn't actually address the point.
Analogy: if I see someone mercilessly beating on their kids, all of the "But he's really a loving father" claims in the world won't make those beatings right, nor will they sway my opinion of them. Now amplify that to a being that cursed a species due to the actions of a mere two, committed genocide several times, and a host of other heinous acts. Saying, "Well, you're not in a position to judge" isn't really accurate. I don't need to hold out for more info to know that it's evil, at least in part.
Furthermore, god's omnipotence and omniscience put to question why it acts in such violent, wasteful ways. I'm a programmer. I look at things through that lens a lot of the time. A big part of my job is creating an environment that gracefully handles errors while continuing to work. God's answer to something that doesn't fit the program (heh)? Throw the computer out the window, go outside, douse it in gasoline, and light it on fire, all while looking at the neighbors and yelling "LET THAT BE A LESSON TO THE REST OF YOU!" A being that wise, that powerful could certainly devise a better system than one that uses people as grist for the mill.
And that's where your continued arguments from ignorance hurts your cause. Well, one of several places. It's not that, as a finite being, I can't grasp god's actual intentions or actions. It's that I, as a finite being, shouldn't be seeing all of these obvious flaws. The best solutions to most problems are elegant, to the point of being almost self-evident. God's system? Crude and wasteful. Billions of people put to the fire every year. And from a being that apparently wants a relationship from us, but is so very angry that we don't do it all on its terms.
The whole thing is a cruel joke. I'm so very happy it's not real.
---
Your list of attributes are cute, but for each one that has biblical support, I can point to another part of scripture that contradicts it. So, it's ultimately meaningless. Also keep in mind, I grew up Catholic. I know what your god is supposed to be. I know the mainstream narrative that's bandied about. It's just not accurate to the bible itself. Furthermore, even if it was, that wouldn't be evidence towards its existence. It would just be a clearer definition to work from.
And the reason why I keep bringing up the (non) existence of your god is that everything you write is based on the idea that it does exist. Which is definitely something that's not agreed on. So, for me, I'm attempting to poke holes in the cult of personality the myths propagate by pointing out the conflicts and inconsistencies.
In other words, your stance, from what I gather, is an apologetic one. God exists, you atheists are wrong in your accusations against it, and here's my defense.
My stance is your god doesn't exist based on a certain set of reasons, and even if it did I wouldn't worship it for a separate but related set of reasons.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
