Open Letter To Christians

[Drich]

You apologists kick that word "context" around like a magic, argument-disrupting rugby ball. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Lets see then:
con·text
/ˈkäntekst/
noun
noun: context; plural noun: contexts
the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
"the decision was taken within the context of planned cuts in spending"
synonyms: circumstances, conditions, factors, state of affairs, situation, background, scene, setting More
"the wider historical context"
•frame of reference, contextual relationship;
text, subject, theme, topic
"a quote taken out of context"
•the parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.
"word processing is affected by the context in which words appear"

Nope, spot on. Maybe the word context doesn't mean what you think it means.

For one thing, my first example is in context. The relevant verse is 19, and the other verses provide background for what's being talked about. Scholars understand this passage to be (among other things) about the strength of prayer in numbers. It is consistently interpreted this way by christian laymen and scholars alike, and to claim it should not be read that way is an argumentative tactic and not representative of the meaning of the text.

Well, then you and your "uncited scholars" (Aka your personal opinion) along with your 'banwagon arguement' are all wrong. Below is an example of the context in which Mat Chapter 18 verse 19 is framed.

15 “If your brother or sister in God’s family does something wrong, go and tell them what they did wrong. Do this when you are alone with them. If they listen to you, then you have helped them to be your brother or sister again. 16 But if they refuse to listen, go to them again and take one or two people with you. Then there will be two or three people who will be able to tell all that happened. 17 If they refuse to listen to them, tell the church. And if they refuse to listen to the church, treat them as you would treat someone who does not know God or who is a tax collector.

Verses 15 through 17 Christ is establishing a new command/rule with in the body of believers. (how to approach someone when you catch them doing wrong.)

18 “I can assure you that when you speak judgment here on earth, it will be God’s judgment. And when you promise forgiveness here on earth, it will be God’s forgiveness.[c]
Verse 18 Jesus is still speaking in the same breath in which He just issued this edict. We are still talking about sin and forgiveness "When you speak judgment" refers to the judgment made in verse 15.

19 To say it another way, if two of you on earth agree on anything you pray for, my Father in heaven will do what you ask. 20 Yes, if two or three people are together believing in me, I am there with them.

19 and 20 simply rephrases the forgiveness principle to include those who believe that only God can grant forgiveness for sin. (Which would be people like the Pharisees, per their reaction to Jesus when He told the cripple man in the temple his sins were forgiven/get up and walk) For them They would have to petition God to forgive/not shun or stone a sinner. as they would be acting agents of God punishing sin.

Then verse 21 and 22 cements the fact that we are talking about forgiveness and not praying for random stuff we want in groups when Peter Asks :

”21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, when someone[d] won’t stop doing wrong to me, how many times must I forgive them? Seven times?”22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, you must forgive them more than seven times. You must continue to forgive them even if they do wrong to you seventy-seven times.

See pinky context does show us the truth of how Christ intended us to receive verse 19, and it is not the stand alone interpretation you, nor your un-named 'scholars' would have us believe. Matter of fact one has to completely ignore all other surrounding verses and only read 19 to interpret Jesus' words as a blanket Free for all/group wishing ceremony.

Context fixes your supposed contradiction.




That second example has not a damn thing to do with the holy spirit. Here it is again, this time in the context of [b]ALL of chapter 7:

Ask God for What You Need

7 “Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 8 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them.

9 “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? 10 Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! 11 You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.

Luke 11:

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The first is the warning not to judge unless you want to be judged, which includes the parable of the Speck and the Log. This parable is generally taken to mean that before you approach another about sin in his life, you must first make sure you yourself are blameless before god so your judgement won't be clouded or called into question. If you think it means something about the holy spirit, prove it.


The second passage is the Ask, Seek, Knock section. Jesus repeats twice that if they ask/seek/knock in his name it will be given/found/opened. He then goes on to say that just as the listeners, "who are evil," know how to give their children bread and fish instead of stones and snakes, so too will their father in heaven give them all good things.


The next passage is the one about narrow and wide gates. This parable is pretty straightforward; Jesus is saying that he is the only way to god, and that the way he calls them to is not easy. Just remember...the wide gate goes to hell.


Next we have the warning about false prophets being like wolves in sheep's clothing and about the fact that some people who thought they had the whole christianity thing right will still go to hell (which is kind of fucked up, if you think about it...oh wait...).


Finally, we have the parable of the wise and foolish builders, who built their houses on rock and sand, respectively. Storms and floods came, the house on the rock did not fall, the house on sand did. Scholars take this passage to mean that a life built on godliness will stand firm, but a life built on worldliness will crumble. The truth is that life crumbles either way, and people use gods in a failed attempt at comfort

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So yeah...none of that actually has much of anything to do with the holy spirit, and the verse in question is pretty much talking about how to get your wishes granted, just like the one in the first example.


I'm also amused by the cherry-picking accusation, since you're not in jail for throwing rocks at adulterers or anything.


Besides, if god has this divine plan and has predetermined the outcome of all situations according to this plan for his greater glory because he works in mysterious ways, then what the fuck do our prayers matter? It sounds like he's gonna do pretty much the same thing regardless of what we ask. On the other hand, if prayer has any impact on outcomes, why isn't there any evidence of that?


Prayer is like a self-inflicted combination of hypnosis and fortune telling that operates on confirmation bias and anecdotal experience to convince a person they can control their life by talking to the ceiling and maybe killing a goat...or some gays...
[/quote]

An accurate exegesis of scriptural context is not limited to adjacent passages, but must also include other teachings on the subject. for example in this case when I said 'context' I was directly speaking to mat 7:9-11 and it's match in Luke 11:9 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”


Clearly when Jesus is preaching the sermon on the mount in mat 7 verse 9 He is pointing back to the larger/more complete teaching recorded in Luke 11. How do I dare say this? Because is it word for word minus the parable and the summary. You can't accept one version, and ignore an expanded teaching on the very same quote.