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Suffering
#11
RE: Suffering

Quote:1. If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
2. Evil exists.
3. Therefore, objective moral values exist (some things are evil).
4. Therefore, God exists.

In #2, that needs to be "objectively evil acts, things or creatures exist," or something similar. (What is required is not just evil but "objective evil".) As a result, #2 is not the negation of the consequent in #1, and therefore the negation of the consequent in #3 is invalid and #4 does not follow. The proof is flawed by what is essentially ignoratio elenchi. Yes, the existence of objective evil might lead to a persuasive argument, however since that is not established, the "proof" is invalid. Of course, if you could prove either objective evil or objective good, you wouldn't need such proofs in the first place; in line with Euthyphro's dilemma, people could likely be persuaded to follow those objective morals, whether or not they emanated from God.

Proving the existence of objective moral values. That would be sweet. I already know where the first $100,000 of my Nobel would be going.


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Messages In This Thread
Suffering - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 16, 2012 at 7:30 pm
RE: Suffering - by Erinome - September 16, 2012 at 7:44 pm
RE: Suffering - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 16, 2012 at 7:53 pm
RE: Suffering - by frankiej - September 16, 2012 at 7:47 pm
RE: Suffering - by Polaris - September 16, 2012 at 8:10 pm
RE: Suffering - by Ben Davis - September 16, 2012 at 8:12 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 16, 2012 at 8:21 pm
RE: Suffering - by Waratah - September 17, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Suffering - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 17, 2012 at 6:30 am
RE: Suffering - by Ben Davis - September 17, 2012 at 7:20 am
RE: Suffering - by Waratah - September 17, 2012 at 7:34 am
RE: Suffering - by genkaus - September 17, 2012 at 7:56 am
RE: Suffering - by Napoléon - September 17, 2012 at 8:06 am
RE: Suffering - by Lion IRC - September 17, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Suffering - by Nine - September 17, 2012 at 2:31 am
RE: Suffering - by Whateverist - September 17, 2012 at 9:28 am
RE: Suffering - by Angrboda - September 17, 2012 at 2:50 am
RE: Suffering - by Faith No More - September 17, 2012 at 8:30 am
RE: Suffering - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Suffering - by Polaris - September 18, 2012 at 12:33 am
RE: Suffering - by LastPoet - September 17, 2012 at 9:19 am
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 17, 2012 at 2:47 pm
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 18, 2012 at 1:00 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 1:46 pm
RE: Suffering - by genkaus - September 18, 2012 at 2:08 pm
RE: Suffering - by Tobie - September 18, 2012 at 1:59 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 2:17 pm
RE: Suffering - by Godschild - September 18, 2012 at 12:18 am
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 12:21 am
RE: Suffering - by Waratah - September 18, 2012 at 1:43 am
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 18, 2012 at 2:37 am
RE: Suffering - by Godschild - September 19, 2012 at 12:29 am
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 19, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Suffering - by Cyberman - September 18, 2012 at 7:35 am
RE: Suffering - by Godschild - September 19, 2012 at 12:51 am
RE: Suffering - by Cato - September 19, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: Suffering - by genkaus - September 19, 2012 at 4:55 am
RE: Suffering - by Cyberman - September 19, 2012 at 10:58 am
RE: Suffering - by Minimalist - September 18, 2012 at 1:04 am
RE: Suffering - by Kayenneh - September 18, 2012 at 5:54 am
RE: Suffering - by The Grand Nudger - September 18, 2012 at 8:43 am
RE: Suffering - by pocaracas - September 18, 2012 at 9:05 am
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 18, 2012 at 1:51 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 1:55 pm
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 18, 2012 at 2:11 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 18, 2012 at 2:17 pm
RE: Suffering - by Phish - September 18, 2012 at 2:02 pm
RE: Suffering - by Mister Agenda - September 18, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 18, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Suffering - by Mister Agenda - September 19, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: Suffering - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2012 at 12:54 am
RE: Suffering - by Kayenneh - September 19, 2012 at 3:49 am
RE: Suffering - by FallentoReason - September 19, 2012 at 3:53 am
RE: Suffering - by downbeatplumb - September 19, 2012 at 6:54 am
RE: Suffering - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Suffering - by Reforged - September 19, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Suffering - by Godschild - September 19, 2012 at 11:23 pm
RE: Suffering - by Cyberman - September 20, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: Suffering - by jonb - September 20, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Suffering - by Cyberman - September 20, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Suffering - by Kayenneh - September 20, 2012 at 3:21 am

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