Collaboration with theists?

[Pippy]

Hey,

Good discussion.

Not believing in God doesn't drive you to want to stab people. That was something in you - it's got nothing to with atheism.

So if a theist does something bad, his belief drove him too it, but if an atheist does something bad it is a personal failing? What about the theists personal accountability?

There is no such thing as atheist fundamentalism.

I am using the concepts of dogmatic and fundamentalist atheist in the sense that they are acting dogmatic and fanatical. I know there is no dogma, but it is a comparison to the dogmatic fundamental believers and how they act.

Thanks EvF.

That is exactly what I am saying.

That's unfortunate Leo. I seriously doubt that no one ever made and poor decisions or hurt anyone else and based those ideas on a lack of belief. I am not gonna squabble and make bad examples of it, I just really, really doubt that such a large group of humans could be so perfect.

If you are in fact a theist evangelical, that is, you teach religious ignorance to others, it is your agenda to dumb-down and control.

Hey again SO. I am not evangelical, no. I am not religious. I hold organized religion in almost the same contempt that you do, I just happen to believe in god. I assure you that I don't want to dumb down and control. I have spent my life fighting those who dumb down and control, so by proxy I am attempting to enlighten and promote freedom. Not freedom to see it my way, but freedom to see it however you choose.

It is a given that you are among them.

See that is the problem. I confess to belief in a higher power, and am automatically your enemy. That means you are likely fanatical about your disbelief. Is it possible that I believe in god and am not evil?

Am I willing to let you believe whatever you want? Yes, I’ll fight to the death to protect your right to do so.

But would you abolish world religion? If so where is the line where you let us believe?

"freedom of religion" is nothing more than "freedom from somebody elses religion."

Absolutely, yes. I want you to be free from others beliefs, as much as I want others to be free of yours.

So, who is demanding?

Not I...

Thank you for your time SO.

I represent no threat to yourself and even take your side against theistic censorship. I also take sides against you in anti theistic censorship.

Hey Frodo, good to see you again, although your avatar has gotten scary. That was a very good point.

If an atheist goes further than that and their attitude and behaviour is ostensibly dogmatic, it seems dogmatic on the outside - then that's to do with the individual.

Hey again EvF, I agree with this. But if a theist takes it further and gets dogmatic, is it not their individual responsibility as well? It theists dogmatism part and parcel, but atheistic dogmatism some rare mutation?

Religion is not on its last legs in the west. America is full of religion, especially Christianity... and also full of creationism.

I'm not sure if I agree with you, I know a lot of Americans. I agree with Frodo, you guys are surely the majority, especially in the younger generations. I knoe for a fact there is less and less Genesis Creationists, literal biblical creationists. It is a very rare breed nowadays. But ID creationists, people who think there might be an element of design somewhere in our reality still exist, although not in the majority at all.

The proof is in scripture and it's in many sermons in many churches, synagogues and mosques around the world.

But if, SO, I am not religious, and hold none of these institutions to be correct, then am I still your enemy? Is there a difference between their hate, and the "abolish all religion" agenda?

I only wanted to show an example of one of the ideas I have seen from atheism, that we need to do everything we can to stop world religion. We need to do everything we can to make people stop beliving in God. And I think that takes it over the line, and they have become the abyss. An atheist trying to abolish religion is no different that a religious zealot trying to abolish atheism. What ever happened to "We don't think there is a god, but because we may be wrong, we won't fore everyone else into our world view"? I personally think there is a god, but I may be wrong, and so I don't force others to think like me. I posted this article to demonstrate a side of atheism that could be described as dogmatic or fanatical, and to denounce that fanaticism along with all its other flavours...

Thanks everyone for listening.

-Pip