I was traumatised by Evangelical Christians in my early 20s, at my university's Student Union. They told me a friend who died age 20 is going to Hell. And that not believing in their doctrines will lead to conscious eternal torture.
Evangelical Christians told me my atheist friend who died in a car accident age 20 is facing conscious eternal torment for his lack of faith. They showed me very little empathy or compassion in their dogmatic attitudes, especially considering my grief.
I heard that Elaine Pagels left Evangelical Christianity for the exact same reason. A non-Christian friend died (in his case Jewish), and she was told they are in Hell, so she left Evangelicalism. That belief no longer resonated with her, nor seemed reasonable.
I am now an atheist myself. I personally find beliefs like the above and the associated bigotry quite toxic, myself. The notion of conscious eternal torture based on a thought crime is effectively positing and glorifying a cosmic tyrant. It is really horrible and hurtful to clearly be told that a friend of mine who died young is now going to spend eternity in an infinity of pain. No matter how irrational that belief may be.
As an atheist I derive immense comfort from the idea that all pain and suffering ends at death, no matter what morally evil deeds a person committed during their lifetime, or whatever their belief system. This is also a Biblical principle, though: "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
My view is, as Epicurus taught, true salvation is found through abandoning the fear and desire of an afterlife reward and punishment and fear of a wrathful deity, which weighs heavily on the psyche (mind/soul), and embracing a naturalistic worldview, together with following an ideal of life, health and inner peace in which terror of divine judgement and punishment (and the need for afterlife hopes) need have no place.
Thus I cannot accept the fear of Hell as rational, given its lack of empirical grounding combined with obvious use to control, manipulate and emotionally blackmail people, stirring up neurotic fears of Hell which conflict with genuine imperturable inner peace, or ataraxia.
I thus derive comfort from a naturalistic worldview in which the horrifying prospect concerning my friend's proposed infinity of pain, as put forward by Evangelical Christian dogma, is confidently viewed as an improbable hypothesis.
I do consider it quite a mean-spirited idea though, personally, to suppose that a person not following their faith gets conscious eternal torture and this is somehow right and just. In my view, infinite punishment for finite sins (including inherited Original Sin) makes no sense and feels quite evil, is rooted in vengeance and hatred not corrective justice, and would in fact not be justice by any reasonable standard. Not even so much vengeance as some malevolent sadism, for a God to oversee the existence of such a Hell for all non-believers as he sits on his throne - almost like a sadistic kid with an ant farm enjoying roasting his ants live over a fire.
I was deeply wounded by Evangelical Christians, and they did seem to be very heavy on dogma and light on compassion, in my unfortunate experience. Some of them have attempted to shut down dialogue before when I mentioned the issues I raise on this thread, such as my experience with my friend, in a way I felt lacked integrity.
My experience with Evangelicals/Fundamentalists (they called themselves both) definitely left a scar though. I must admit, I am wary of considering myself personal friends with a person who thinks it is right and just that I face conscious eternal torture in Hell. Even if I personally consider that belief to be absurd, the value judgement that me being tortured forever is right, and that of friends too, does feel hateful. It seems quite a source of bigotry.
I am quite confident as an atheist myself now.
I thought I would share my experiences here, to get a different perspective.
Kind regards,
Mequa
Evangelical Christians told me my atheist friend who died in a car accident age 20 is facing conscious eternal torment for his lack of faith. They showed me very little empathy or compassion in their dogmatic attitudes, especially considering my grief.
I heard that Elaine Pagels left Evangelical Christianity for the exact same reason. A non-Christian friend died (in his case Jewish), and she was told they are in Hell, so she left Evangelicalism. That belief no longer resonated with her, nor seemed reasonable.
I am now an atheist myself. I personally find beliefs like the above and the associated bigotry quite toxic, myself. The notion of conscious eternal torture based on a thought crime is effectively positing and glorifying a cosmic tyrant. It is really horrible and hurtful to clearly be told that a friend of mine who died young is now going to spend eternity in an infinity of pain. No matter how irrational that belief may be.
As an atheist I derive immense comfort from the idea that all pain and suffering ends at death, no matter what morally evil deeds a person committed during their lifetime, or whatever their belief system. This is also a Biblical principle, though: "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
My view is, as Epicurus taught, true salvation is found through abandoning the fear and desire of an afterlife reward and punishment and fear of a wrathful deity, which weighs heavily on the psyche (mind/soul), and embracing a naturalistic worldview, together with following an ideal of life, health and inner peace in which terror of divine judgement and punishment (and the need for afterlife hopes) need have no place.
Thus I cannot accept the fear of Hell as rational, given its lack of empirical grounding combined with obvious use to control, manipulate and emotionally blackmail people, stirring up neurotic fears of Hell which conflict with genuine imperturable inner peace, or ataraxia.
I thus derive comfort from a naturalistic worldview in which the horrifying prospect concerning my friend's proposed infinity of pain, as put forward by Evangelical Christian dogma, is confidently viewed as an improbable hypothesis.
I do consider it quite a mean-spirited idea though, personally, to suppose that a person not following their faith gets conscious eternal torture and this is somehow right and just. In my view, infinite punishment for finite sins (including inherited Original Sin) makes no sense and feels quite evil, is rooted in vengeance and hatred not corrective justice, and would in fact not be justice by any reasonable standard. Not even so much vengeance as some malevolent sadism, for a God to oversee the existence of such a Hell for all non-believers as he sits on his throne - almost like a sadistic kid with an ant farm enjoying roasting his ants live over a fire.
I was deeply wounded by Evangelical Christians, and they did seem to be very heavy on dogma and light on compassion, in my unfortunate experience. Some of them have attempted to shut down dialogue before when I mentioned the issues I raise on this thread, such as my experience with my friend, in a way I felt lacked integrity.
My experience with Evangelicals/Fundamentalists (they called themselves both) definitely left a scar though. I must admit, I am wary of considering myself personal friends with a person who thinks it is right and just that I face conscious eternal torture in Hell. Even if I personally consider that belief to be absurd, the value judgement that me being tortured forever is right, and that of friends too, does feel hateful. It seems quite a source of bigotry.
I am quite confident as an atheist myself now.
I thought I would share my experiences here, to get a different perspective.
Kind regards,
Mequa
