Regarding our Rule on Insults (Please read post before voting)

[Eilonnwy]

Your fellow admins and moderators have been discussing for some time the current rule on insults, or rather, lack thereof. We are fairly divided on the issue so we have decide to have a poll and see what the rest of the members think and put the issue to rest. First, let me explain the rules as they stand:

No Flaming
Spamming people with a large number of swear words instead of making a point will result in a warning and a ban for repeat offenders. Whilst making an insulting or impolite remark in a discussion is not specifically covered by this rule, it is certainly not recommended. If you cannot present your point without insulting someone, you don't have a point worth presenting.

http://atheistforums.org/rules.php

So essentially, unless you're trolling or flaming with insults, any other insult is okay. If you answer with only an insult, but haven't raised it to the level of a flame, it's okay. If you make a point in an argument and then add an insult, it's okay. Furthermore, if you insult someone's argument directly, and not them personally, it's okay.

We are all in agreement that the last part is okay. Insulting someone's argument is not the same as insulting a person, and most of us here can make that distinction. Most of us also agree that if your post is a simple insult, with nothing else, that it should be moderated.

However, the point of contention rests in whether we should ban personal insults outright, or allow insults if it's accompanied by a thought out argument. The former would result in a new (or rather revival of the) rule banning personal insults. The latter suggestion would change the flaming rule to:

"Flaming - Using offensive or insulting language instead of making an actual point in your post will result in a swift warning, and a ban if this behavior continues. Whilst making an insulting or impolite remark as an addition to a point in a discussion is not specifically covered by this rule, it is certainly not recommended. If you cannot present your point without insulting someone, you don't have a point worth presenting."

Those in favor of simply tightening up the flaming rule to disallow posts that serve only to insult, but allowing insults in points made, feel that they don't want to limit free speech. Sometimes people make really good points despite the insults that might be there and they feel that it would be useless to go around banning and warning people.

However, some of us feel that the use of insults, whether it's involved in a point or not, only serves to stop the conversation. No matter how good your point is, the offended party will tend to focus on the insult and what may be a really good conversation is on the road to a flame fest. We've seen some threads derailed horribly by insults, causing a lot of unnecessary drama. Furthermore, it's really not that hard to make a point without an insult. It's one thing to insult an argument and call it stupid, but is it really necessary to smear the person? We all can make stupid arguments no matter how intelligent we are, nut as I said before, when it gets to personal insults, honest intellectual conversation stops. Furthermore, free speech is about not being arrested, not whether you can call someone an asshole on a forum community.

I personally feel strongly about removing insults. I would like to see this forum become a more friendly place, especially to newcomers, and I think enough of us are mature enough to censure ourselves. Besides, given the fact it's been a lax rule for a while, I certainly wouldn't ban outright, but use verbal warnings, forum warnings, post moderation, and if after all those actions the person still can't stop insulting, then a ban. I don't think because something may be a hassle to do makes it something not worth doing. Ultimately, we're all here to have fun, and lately it's been feeling rather hostile. I don't want to ban insults to discourage people, but rather encourage people.

So please vote in the poll above, and if you have any suggestions or points you'd like to make, please do.