RE: The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential
April 21, 2018 at 11:20 am
(April 21, 2018 at 11:07 am)Hammy Wrote: It's useless as the scientific experiments show... that people make all their decisions before they are conscious of them.Realtime control of decisions is not a requirement for usefulness. I would suggest that you consider the benefits of reflective observation, memory, and long term planning..which don't necessarily inform our immediate actions, but have a cumulative baseline setting effect on future action.
My issue with Dennett is that he at best defines his ontology in a ridiculous overly pramgatic way that only deals with reality when he thinks it is useful (putting him in the yucky Jordan Peterson camp) and at worst he makes a categorical logical error by equivocating on two different definitions of "real". And he makes the total non-sequitur that because conscious experience is a "user illusion" that subjectivitiy itself isn't really there. Which is just a total non-sequtiur and subjective experience is the one thing that MUST be real. He says there is no real seeming, but that is more absurd than saying there is no real objective universe.
Quote:Oh right now it's back to your annoying tactic of saying you agree even when we plainly disagree. Literally, I don't care if you say you agree, you're saying things I disagree with, so we don't agree whether you like it or not. We may agree on one point, but we fundamentally disagree on many. And once again, you're being misleading. I am thoroughly convinced that you won the best debater category by fooling, misleading and stawmanning people because in a debate it's all your ever seem to fucking do. I'm not dense enough to miss it.I think it's important to focus on the things we don't disagree about in a conversation about disagreement. You and I both agree that there are a range of potential biological solutions to specific problems. You and I agree that there may be other ways that some behavior x is achieved. We do not agree on this summary of potential biological solutions and functional alternatives to consciousness as indicative of the uselessness of x.
Quote:No I wouldn't consider it useless if it actually did... but it doesn't. Once again, you're being irrelevant and misleading. My point is that the scientific evidence supports consciousness not actually influencing behavior.Is your support for this limited to being useful at realtime decisionmaking? I agree that this is an interesting subject, we agree that consciousness plays far less of a role in that than it seems, or that we expected to find. I'm cautioning against defining evolutionary utility so narrowly.
Quote:Crap analogy. Scientific experiments don't show that flight or wings have no benefit.We come to the first special pleading case. Wing/flight is somehow different from brain/mind.
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