(February 3, 2012 at 8:24 am)whateverist Wrote: In actual fact gay youth in the world grow up hating themselves for what they are because they have been indoctrinated to feel as you do about it. They don't grow up and decide to join the hated group, they would never choose that given the what they've been raised to believe. It's just that they happen to be born gay. Being young and seeing no way out they too often choose to side with societal intolerance and end their own life.
First, they shouldn't be hated. Second, it isn't being gay that's sinful.
Oh, and guess what? Every single Christian is a sinner, and most struggle with habitual sin. So a failure to reach out to homosexuals on the issue of sin is a pretty big problem for the church in general with regard to its approach to habitual sin.
Quote:Expressing the opinion that homosexuality is not okay has consequences. There certainly are more important matters in the world to concern ourselves with than the debate over the status of homosexuality .. but not to these gay suicides. You'd have to agree that for them this was the most important thing of all. So as long as it truly is so low on your list of priorities, perhaps you could deign to agree not to contribute to the atmosphere of intolerance which has this sad side effect.
I'm afraid I've missed the point of your emotional pleading (and grats on using suicides as a political device, very caring). I'm not contributing to an atmosphere of intolerance. I'm all for tolerance. You're the one saying that certain views shouldn't be expressed. You're the one trying to silence and reject people.
The only argument I'd make with regard to homosexuality, if I were forced to make it, would be that people shouldn't do it. I think there's a clear case from the Biblical text that homosexual sex acts are immoral.
But so's blasphemy. So's taking the Lord's name in vain. And I tolerate the f**k out of that. So how in the world does disagreeing with you automatically make me into a promoter of intolerance who shouldn't be allowed to say things?
Quote:I won't ask you to join me in decrying the open expression of your homophobia as hate speech, but I think if you were a follower of Jesus instead of a mindless Christian you'd make that choice yourself.
I do make that choice myself. See, I'm big into existentialist Christianity. I'm not even sure we should have actual churches. So I'm all about choices and free will and self-determination. Of course, your crude attempt to categorize me fundamentally disrespects my personhood, but hey, you're doing rhetoric, if some personhood has to get disrespected then them's the breaks.
The choice I (myself) make is to embrace free speech instead of polite speech or nice speech. Because I think that sort of thing matters. I think you have to tolerate things you don't like in a free society. But you disagree, and that's your right. (See? I can do rhetoric too. I just don't have to use the broken lives of anguished suicidal teens to do it.)
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
