'Intelligent' design?

[Phil]

Quite the narrow view of "honest" i think you just ruled out honesty as a non-existent quality of mankind Phil.

Didn't rule it out. People are honest about things all the time. There isn't a man (or women - put down the pitchforks) alive that is totally honest all the time. But we are not talking about a man (or woman), we are talking about an organization.

There are those who truly do believe that ID is science, that they have sound evidence in their corner, and for them, it's one hell of a controversy.

Scientific evidence for ID? Show it. I would have never thought you would side with ID as a science.

Evidence, evidence, evidence.

Again where is the evidence that ID is a science and how are you defining science?

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Patterns are not designs. For something to be designed there is an element of top down management or direction, a designer. There is no such thing in nature. It makes for a good turn of phrase, but this is exactly what your favorite ID'ers seize upon in this sort of discussion, it gives them an oppurtunity to argue about anything other than....

Evidence, evidence, evidence.

Read the book or at least look at what is in it. Just making that claim without even knowing what is in the book is about as stupid as a IDiot would be.