(June 21, 2012 at 10:45 am)cratehorus Wrote: Are you all saying Josephus wrote the Gospel of Mark, and therefore he is the one, who invented the Jesus myth?
AFAIK, nobody claims that anybody "made up Jesus one day".
Nobody ever just makes up an urban legend nor is it necessary for someone to just invent an urban legend out of whole cloth.
If you look at the actual history of the time, it's not hard to see a compelling scenario where the ancient Jews chafing under Roman rule were wondering where the heck their promised kingdom went. What ever happened to Yahweh's promise to King David that his seed would rule forever?
To answer this theological question, it's not hard to see how some sects of Judaism began to think their kingdom existed in a higher place. Revelation, one of the earliest books of the NT, if not the earliest, describes a Jesus who rules on a throne in Heaven and comes down from the clouds like a mighty warlord to punish Israel's enemies. This is the kind of Messiah that the Jews were expecting.
Reading the Gospels in order (Mark, Matt, Luke, John), we see how the tale got better with the telling. Mark tells us nothing of any virgin birth. Jesus is a holy man who is clearly separate from and subordinate to his father. Matt tries to tie in Jesus to OT prophecy and clean up the story of Mark where he gets certain Jewish traditions wrong. Luke's Jesus was written separately from Matt as an elaboration of Mark, and thus contains numerous contradictions with Matthew. John's Jesus is the Trinitarian Jesus, equal with and united with his father. Contrasted with a knowledge of different Christianities of the time (Ebionite, Docetic, Marcionite, etc), it's easy to map out how Christian thinking changed and evolved over time.
Some say the early thoughts about Jesus were influenced by the Egyptians. Others the Greeks. Others the Persians. Others OT scripture. Others, the writings of Josephus. I think like most urban legends, it borrowed a bit here and there.
How did it happen? The ancient Jews were looking for their kingdom and promised Messiah in a higher place. Influenced by different ideas, they saw a Jesus in Heaven. Parables were written, like Mark, that brought him down to earth. They may have been intended only as parables (like Jesus and the fig tree) but were later retold as a true story. Matt and Luke added more to the story, as happens with urban legends. John refined it for what would be orthodox Christianity. No one person made it all up nor is it necessary to think so.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist