RE: Atheism is the punk rock of religion
July 29, 2012 at 12:53 am
(This post was last modified: July 29, 2012 at 1:16 am by Reforged.)
(July 29, 2012 at 12:38 am)CliveStaples Wrote:Quote:In your own words thats simply what it is, a lack of belief and nothing else.
Ergo; *NOT* a religious position.
Thank you and goodnight... at least until you decide you can see my post despite having blocked me, again. :-)
Doesn't this turn on what 'a religious position' amounts to? Someone who says, "I'm undecided about this political issue" might be said to have a political position on the issue--'undecided'. Whether you decide to call it a 'position' or a 'lack of a position' seems pretty arbitrary; a pollster seeking information on the positions people have on the issue would probably not ignore the 'undecideds'.
It's like asking, "Is there an empty set?" Well, some people think that a set has to contain something in order to be a set--that is, a set is defined by its elements. Whether you choose to include the empty set as a set is entirely arbitrary.
Without meaning to come across as insulting;
If I conclude Aliens have psychic powers thats a position on Aliens. If I conclude Aliens don't have psychic powers then thats still a position on Aliens. If I conclude Aliens don't exist then the most you could squeeze out of it is thats a position on reality in that I don't think Aliens are actually part of it.
I conclude through lack of any evidence God exists that he does not exist. This is a position on evidence, it is a position on reality, on fiction. It may even be a position on life. How can it be a position on religion? I don't acknowledge it as a reasoned or backed thing to have a position on. I can no more have a position on that than on the belief of someone elses imaginary friend who I have concluded I have no reason to believe exists. The point of whether his cardigan is red or yellow would be moot, I don't think theres a cardigan there or even a persons body for it to rest upon.
My position cannot be religious, I fundamentally reject the premises on which religions operate.
(July 29, 2012 at 12:34 am)fr0d0 Wrote: So let me point out your continued error Raphael, as you now seem to have understood your last one...Firstly, let me point out one of your more embarrassing recent mistakes that is ironically compounded by my prediction at the end of my last post and by your retort afterward:
Buddhists can lack a belief in a deity, yet also be members of a major religion.
Not that this has anything to do with your position on deity, which is the point in discussion here. You have a position on deity, which I credit you with having thought about. And Indeed, you make noises about a position of materialism, a philosophical stance. So you are easily included in my categorization here.
"(Just so's you know Raphael: I have you on ignore. I don't usually get to see what you post. Nor do I usually have the option to unhide your posts unless it's a rare occasion that I'm on my laptop or not viewing the mobile site/s.)"
"Thank you and goodnight... at least until you decide you can see my post despite having blocked me, again. :-)"
I will not mention it further, suffice to say it warranted at least one bemused mention however.
If you looked into Buddhism you'd discover they have in their scriptures omnipotent figures who fill the role of deities. These have been slowly phased out and placed firmly into the interpretation of being metaphorical. Never the less there is still the omnipotent being known as the Buddha and the Buddhist aspiration to become one with this being by perfecting ones self over many lifetimes through reincarnation. Out of all religions I would say Buddhism is the only one I could honestly say I see undeniably admirable traits in. I respect its moral outlook despite feeling that its position on reality is in many ways fundamentally flawed.
However, this is not the point of our discussion. The point is Buddha, an omnipotent being one with the universe itself, fills the role in Buddhism you suggest remains unfilled.
The fact is you admitted Atheism is nothing more but the lack of a belief in a deity as opposed to your claim it was a religious position. This alone has been the objective driving me in this debate. This was the point I was aiming for you to concede... and you have.
"Atheism = lack of belief in God."
Your words, not mine.
I think we're done here, thank you for your time.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
- Abdul Alhazred.