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Atheism leaves too much room for error.
#64
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error.
(August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am)The_Truth Wrote:
(August 18, 2009 at 2:23 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Now, again, can you really (I mean truly really) be THAT stupid?
Please allow me to point out your inconsistencies.

Oh please do!

(August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am)The_Truth Wrote: there was no matter/energy, time, or space, literally NOTHING. Then the universe started.
(This is incorrect, energy/matter have always existed). First Law of Thermodynamics.

Actually the first law of thermodynamics states, "The increase in the internal energy of a system is equal to the amount of energy added by heating the system, minus the amount lost as a result of the work done by the system on its surroundings."

In essence you seems to be suggesting the old anti-big bang argument that, "something can not come out of nothing", yes? This argument is only superficially convincing because, from quantum mechanics (not that I'm any expert) it is understood that "vacuum fluctuations" can occur. To recycle an earlier answer of mine:

It is known that quantum vacuum fluctuations allow for the appearance of energy & matter from nothing without violating the First Law of Thermodynamics. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle allows for the spontaneous appearance of particles of matter from vacuum for a period of time inversely related to their masses and without violating the laws of Conservation of Energy. A predicted effect of this (the Casimir-Polder force) has been detected (Crabb, 1994) and a further predicted effect (that of the effect of vacuum fluctuations upon the energy levels of atoms ... the Lamb shift) has been detected and measured to five significant figures in hydrogen (Barrow, 1983). The existence of these “Vacuum Fluctuations” has led to speculation that the universe itself may have originated in such a fluctuation followed by a rapid inflationary period. It has been further proposed that the positive and negative energy in the universe balance each other so that the universe's net energy is zero (Ecker, 1990, 203). As such the appearance of the universe out of nothing via a quantum vacuum fluctuation does not violate the laws of Conservation of Energy.

Ultimately however the origins of the universe including the very earliest stages of the massive expansion phase known as "the big bang" are highly speculative and no one in the scientific community is, as far as I am aware, arguing otherwise.

There's more here from the late, great Dr. Asimov:




(August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am)The_Truth Wrote: 2. The entity, known as a singularity, expanded very rapidly. Sometimes this is called an "explosion", but this is misleading. In a typical explosion, matter and energy expand into space. But there was no space to expand into. (You claim there was no space for matter and energy to expand into)

Space is an attribute of the universe ... as it expanded it effectively created its own space as it moved into it.

(August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am)The_Truth Wrote: 3. Dicke also suggested that our universe may have been created from the remains of a previous one and that infinitesimal amounts of radiation would be detectable if this were so. (Further down, you claim there was a previous universe). therefore, allowing energy/matter to expand.

What point are you making apart from repeating what I've already said?

(August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am)The_Truth Wrote: Is this correct?

I am discussing some reasonably modern thought of some considerable intellects on the subject, these guys have a few active more brain cells than me (and many, many more than you) so I would assume they know what they're talking about.

Kyu
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Messages In This Thread
Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 12:02 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 17, 2009 at 12:17 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 17, 2009 at 12:29 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 2:48 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 17, 2009 at 12:34 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 17, 2009 at 2:51 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 3:28 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 17, 2009 at 3:30 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 3:45 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 17, 2009 at 4:19 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 4:10 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 8:10 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 18, 2009 at 4:43 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Dotard - August 17, 2009 at 4:12 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by leo-rcc - August 17, 2009 at 4:14 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 17, 2009 at 8:17 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 9:48 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 10:45 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 11:03 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by padraic - August 17, 2009 at 8:36 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 17, 2009 at 8:43 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 17, 2009 at 10:15 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Minimalist - August 17, 2009 at 10:42 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 17, 2009 at 11:18 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 9:44 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Kyuuketsuki - August 18, 2009 at 5:02 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by theVOID - August 18, 2009 at 2:12 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 9:07 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 3:53 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 18, 2009 at 6:37 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 18, 2009 at 9:11 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 18, 2009 at 10:02 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 10:19 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Eilonnwy - August 18, 2009 at 10:38 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 18, 2009 at 10:16 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 18, 2009 at 10:48 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 12:07 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 18, 2009 at 12:09 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 18, 2009 at 12:44 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 18, 2009 at 2:35 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 19, 2009 at 12:00 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 19, 2009 at 2:05 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 20, 2009 at 9:02 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Kyuuketsuki - August 20, 2009 at 10:25 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 20, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 19, 2009 at 12:12 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 19, 2009 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 19, 2009 at 2:55 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by theVOID - August 20, 2009 at 7:56 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 23, 2009 at 9:04 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 23, 2009 at 9:24 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Kyuuketsuki - August 23, 2009 at 10:56 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Ace Otana - August 28, 2009 at 8:35 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 23, 2009 at 9:13 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by The_Truth - August 23, 2009 at 9:18 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 23, 2009 at 9:18 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Darwinian - August 23, 2009 at 9:30 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Tiberius - August 23, 2009 at 9:31 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by amw79 - August 23, 2009 at 9:39 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Eilonnwy - August 28, 2009 at 8:50 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 28, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Retorth - August 28, 2009 at 12:57 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by Violet - August 28, 2009 at 1:52 pm
RE: Atheism leaves too much room for error. - by theVOID - August 29, 2009 at 3:52 pm

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