Science and religion

[The Reality Salesman01]

"1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;
2. The universe has a beginning of its existence;
3. The universe has a cause of its existence."


Certain particles and a number of other things in the quantum world come in and out of existance uncaused all the time. I would do some research on that one. This has been true for a long time now.

You are also making an assumption that because everything inside the universe that comes into being has a cause, the entire UNIVERSE whcih came into being (but not in the sense you are implying) must have had a cause. This is the fallacy of compostition. Not to mention your conclusion doesn't follow given that certain things do not have causes.

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Care to actually cite some?

Here is one. It does not prove that the Christian God exists, but it raises the question of what does. It goes along with big bang cosmology.


1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence;
2. The universe has a beginning of its existence;
3. The universe has a cause of its existence.

1. A human experience of morality is observed.
2. God is seen to be the best or only explanation for this moral experience.
3. Therefore, God exists.


"When you see a sundial or a water-clock, you see that it tells the time by design and not by chance. How then can you imagine that the universe as a whole is devoid of purpose and intelligence, when it embraces everything, including these artifacts themselves and their artificers?"
—Cicero, De Natura Deorum, ii. 34

1 Who has believed our message ? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed ? 2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground ; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief ; And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried ; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities ; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way ; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth ; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief ; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:1-10, written 700 years before Christ

The arguments work when you study all of them together. God has the power to explain many serious problems that are not explained by science, and is a valid hypothesis for explanation. When you seek God further, God reveals Gods nature to you confirming the hypothesis with miracles.

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It would be more compelling if you could show their work - how they reached that conclusion, as what a scientist (or a million scientists) believes or feels about a religion is inconsequential as to whether or not science is compatible with any given faith.

No, no, Strodel, prove me wrong......

Go read one of the many books written. It is not like I am making this up. Go on amazon and buy a book if you want to know all that.

"When you see a sundial or a water-clock, you see that it tells the time by design and not by chance. How then can you imagine that the universe as a whole is devoid of purpose and intelligence, when it embraces everything, including these artifacts themselves and their artificers?"

The constant that water clocks and or sundials share with the universe is complexity, Things may share similar characteristics, it cannot however be inferred that they are the same in all or even ANY other form, origin included.

Here's a syllogism to clarify...
Electricity comes from The Power Company
Lightning is comprised of electricity
Therefore lightning comes from The Power Company

See?