The Fly

[Sheed1980]

Again u misunderstand what I said. I never said the Hadith was the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the word of God Allah alone. The ahadith are the way that Prophet Muhammad pbuh applied the laws and knowledge he received from Allah. But since u for whatever reason say that ALL ahadith are false, who had the knowledge of certain things that were unverifiable by mankind in the time of the Prophet pbuh, which we are able to verify as true with our technology and science today? So I agree with u that there are many so called ahadith that are false or not sound such as the one u gave the link on. But how can u say that none of the ahadith are sound, or in other words the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never said these things? But again don't put words in my mouth stating that I said the Hadith is the Qur'an. The Qur'an is from Allah alone and the ahadith are how the Prophet pbuh applied the Qur'an to his life for mankind to follow.

No, sheed. What I said literally and exactly, is that:

The Sunni and Shiite versions of Islam, are  narrating "Bukhari & Muslim" to build their "fundamentals", but deny it at the end of the day and claim that it's all in the Quran, which is something you perfectly displayed in your previous comment when you said:

I never said Allah says the fly has its disease and cure on its wings is IN THE QUR'AN. This is a Hadith ur right about that. What I said was in the Qur'an are the verses where Allah says "Nor does he (Muhammad) say aught of his own accord. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him" Surah 53:3-4. So Allah says here that all the knowledge the Prophet Muhammad pbuh has to tell us as mankind is received by God Allah's inspiration

So you are technically saying:

"What Bukhari, Muslim & other Hadith authors claimed to be a true quote or action said and practiced by Mohammed, is indeed true, since Surah 53:3-4 said that what Mohammed was "reading" in Mecca & Madina, was nothing but a revelation from God".

Any objections? That's what you said. That's what the Sunni faith also says, so you didn't need to write all that long comment to say the thing all of us know.

Okay.Now see MY OBJECTION:

1- Did you hear Mohammed say what the authors of the Hadith claimed he said? The longest beard in the Sunni faith cannot make such claim or even prove it.
2- The verse in Sura 53 refers to the Quran. By logic, context and admission of -ironically- Sunni scholars:

http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.ph...&Id=198037

وقال الطبري: يقول تعالى ذكره: وما ينطق محمد بهذا القرآن عن هواه, إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَى، يقول: ما هذا القرآن إلا وحي من الله يوحيه إليه. اهـ.
وقال البغوي: يريد لا يتكلم بالباطل؛ وذلك أنهم قالوا: إن محمدًا - صلى الله عليه وسلم - يقول القرآن من تلقاء نفسه. اهـ.
وقال البيضاوي: وما يصدر نطقه بالقرآن عن الهوى. اهـ.
و قال النسفي : وما أتاكم به من القرآن ليس بمنطق يصدر عن هواه ورأيه، إنما هو وحي من عند الله يوحى إليه, ويحتج بهذه الآية من لا يرى الاجتهاد للأنبياء عليهم السلام، ويجاب بأن الله تعالى إذا سوغ لهم الاجتهاد وقررهم عليه كان كالوحي, لا نطقًا عن الهوى. اهـ.

The quoted text is the sayings of:

-Imam Tabari 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Tabari

-Imam Baghawi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Baghawi

-Imam Al-Bydawi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Baydawi

-Imam Abu Hafs Umar an-Nasafi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hafs_Umar_an-Nasafi

All of them scholars, are saying that this verse is refering to the Quran. The revelation that is meant by the verse, is the same Quran. 
So, your problem, is that you didn't even see what these scholars have said, never listened to logic -and listened to the Sunni beards instead-, and wasted blocks of texts to prove a WRONG opinion that contradicts the scholars of your own sect.

Instead; I think this verse -from the Quran which is THE ONLY revelation from God- does apply to you and to the majority of people practicing the Sunni faith:

Sura 43
( Verse 21 )   Or have We given them a book before the Qur'an to which they are adhering?
( Verse 22 )   Rather, they say, "Indeed, we found our fathers upon a religion, and we are in their footsteps [rightly] guided."

No. I didn't misunderstand a word you said.

Obviously u did my friend. Because I never said the Prophet pbuh "Read" any of Allah's revelations. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh was illiterate, he could not read or write. And there are sound ahadith that support this statement. Another thing u have to realize is with scholars there are many opinionated differences between their views. However there are also many things that they unanimously agree on. A good way to look at the hadith is Allah gives us the example of the situation in the Qur'an (the law) but he allows the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to define them for us in the Hadith (application). For instance with surah 53 Allah mentions the ma'arij or ascension of the Prophet pbuh to Paradise, but doesn't go into extreme detail. However there are Hadith that the Prophet pbuh gives explanation and detail to an extent of what he witnessed in Paradise so our finite human minds could get somewhat of an image of what Paradise consists of. He tells us of the trees in Paradise not a single one of them does not have a trunk that is of gold. The mansions are so large that it would take a fast horse 60 years to reach from one corner to the other, and they are built with bricks of gold and silver. The houris are so beautiful we would think them as red wine in crystal white glasses. The water of Paradise is whiter than milk and sweeter than honey. These are just a few of descriptions of Paradise that are in the Hadith which Allah has allowed and blessed us to have knowledge of through His messenger Muhammad pbuh. So in the Qur'an Allah gives us the example of His word and command, but He allows the Prophet pbuh to give us a further description of His word and command in the Hadith, not just of Paradise but all of Allah's word and knowledge that He chose to reveal to the Prophet pbuh for us to know.