(March 5, 2014 at 9:52 am)enrico Wrote: I guess you never been in the hospitals in some pacific island.
They are full of people with diabetes.
Diabetes usually come when people eat rich food and do little or no exercise.
Before the white man introduce beef these people only eat a bit of pork, chicken and some seafood but not everyday.
The everyday diet was cassava, taro, fruit, nuts and vegies.
Today they go mad for beef but especially for corned beef in the tin.
The quantity of meat that they eat is not any more that the quantity that people eat in the cold countries but the fact is that in the cold countries people get less sick that is why i said that saturated fat can be used to fight the cold to a certain extend.
Evaluate the difference between anecdote and scientific evidence. Show some studies actually showing this.
(March 5, 2014 at 9:52 am)enrico Wrote: Here and there when people did not have enough natural food they restored to eat meat or some of them eat meat as they become addicted but the fact that our body is totally different from carnivore or omnivore means that we evolve as frugivores.
How do you know this? Show some evidence. What we know is that humans have eaten meat through out our evolution and we have adaptations to eat meat.
(March 5, 2014 at 9:52 am)enrico Wrote: Rubbish.
We do have shorter bowel length than herbivores but not as short as carnivores or omnivore.
Not true, the average length of the human small intestine is 7m, so around 4-5 times the length of the body. The average length of a pigs small intestine is around 15 m, which is approx. 7 times the length of a pigs body.
(March 5, 2014 at 9:52 am)enrico Wrote: You haven't got the right information about the b12.
Objection 2: Vitamin B12 is only obtained from meat, dairy, and eggs.
B12 isn’t made by animals, it’s made by bacteria. It’s found where things are unclean (and rotting flesh is dirty). This easily explains why historically it’s been easy to get B12, because until recently we didn’t live in a sanitized environment. Pull a carrot out of the ground and don’t wash it properly, and there’s almost certainly some B12 there. Vegans should take a B12 supplement, not because veganism is unnatural, but because the modern diet is too clean to contain reliable natural sources of dirty B12.
Incidentally, our need for B12 is tiny: 3 micograms a day (not milligrams, micrograms). The amount of B12 you need for your entire life is smaller than four grains of rice.
http://www.powered-by-produce.com/2010/0.../#comments
Again you need to evaluate your sources. Yes our need for B12 is small, but the potential amount on unwashed fruit and veg is even smaller and there are also B12 analogues which have a similar chemical structure to B12 and compete for absorption but that do not have the same function in the body.
Here is a good article that actually refers to scientific research http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant
My advice to you if you are a vegan is to supplement your diet with B12, or eat fortified foods.
(March 5, 2014 at 9:52 am)enrico Wrote: Sorry but i have been through this sort of argument before when i was dealing with smokers.
Many non-smokers were telling me that i should take it easy but the fight was not won by these pacifists.
It was won by a small group of people like me who went to court several times until the politicians realized that there was no way that the law could stay as it was
Come now, "you" did not win any fight against smoking, it was part of a long term cultural change supported by clear evidence of the harms of smoking. It had nothing to do with people making idiotic arguments about smoking being "natural" or not, and if people did make such arguments it would have undermined the case for stopping smoking. What is natural is completely irrelevant to what is ethical or not. Similarly there is emerging evidence that meat is harmful to health, but to use arguments that are so obviously moronic, such as it not being "natural" undermines the credibility of other arguments against meat eating.