(September 2, 2014 at 10:25 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I don't have to establish it, you have to support your case, since you're making the positive claim. You have the burden of proof, and if you don't meet that burden, I shouldn't believe you.
Atheism establish that God does not exist so it is up to you to come down with positive proof that God is not there.
I understand that there are also people that don't give a damn whether God exist or not and there are also people that don't believe until proof of God existence are there so all depend where you are with your belief or not belief.
If you say that God does not exist it is you that got to come down with proof if on the other hand you got different ideas then it is all up in the air.
My explanation that God exist is based on logic but again as God can not be expressed physically all proof lies on developing spirituality which of course is something far far away from physical-material evidence.
Quote:Because an argument from ignorance is a fallacy. Me not being able to prove something ISN'T true doesn't take you one whit closer to proving it IS. I can't prove that the invisible empire of the underwear gnomes isn't where a certain percentage of missing undergarments wind up to further the gnome king's ambitions toward world domination, either. Life is too short to take ideas whose only claim to truth is that they haven't been proven not to be true, seriously.
Ignorance it is like asking a plumber to fix a door that is a carpenter job.
In the same way you can not understand that to have evidence of God require spirituality and not a material-physical tool.
Until you will use the wrong tool it is obvious that you will not get anywhere in that sense.
Quote:When the claim is something the person making it doesn't seem to be in a position to know, I am certainly justified in dismissing it until I have clear evidence the person knows what they are talking about and isn't just self-deluded.
Again by not using the correct tool to understand how spirituality works you will not get anywhere.
How do you know that i don't know what i am talking about?
It is rather you that pretend to understand something using the wrong tool.
Quote:That would be nice, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Keep on holding your breath.
Maybe one day in the next 1000 lives someone will put a red carpet so you may walk straight to God without first having to go through the hard work.
Sometime people get the free manna from the sky.
Quote:That's nice, but why should I believe there's a God, there's a road to God, that we are both on it, or that you are farther ahead than me? The simplest answer to you thinking you can perceive things other people can't is that you're fooling yourself. We know people fool themselves. We don't know any of the stuff you're trying to convince us of, and your argument seems to boil down to 'trust me'. That's exactly the sort of person I don't trust: someone I don't even know who wants me to trust them on something they can't demonstrate is true.
Rather than trying to convince anyone i try to reason so the challenge make me feel good.
It is like doing physical exercise to keep fit.
Quote:In real life, someone who wants to me to take a path can do a lot more to convince me than sell me on getting motivated to take a path that hasn't been established to exist yet. You sound like you're selling a self-help book. And infinite peace of mind is NOT what I desire, only a reasonable modicum of it. Wanting an infinite amount of it sounds greedy, and possibly hazardous.
I heard that before and then i see people that after they struggle to buy a new car they wish they could have waited few more days and get instead a new model that just came out after they already bought a car.
Anyone saying that they are not interested in something infinite lie to themselves.
Quote:Yes, why would I not want to go ahead in learning and improving my life regardless of whether God is there or not?
The point is that you can not dismiss that God is at the end of human evolution until you got clear evidence.
Quote:I don't desire infinite peace. It sounds infinitely boring. Or like brain death. Have you already achieved this state? I'm thinking it would explain a lot.
There is the conscious mind and the unconscious mind.
Your conscious mind hasn't yet reach the stage in which there is enough spiritual understanding but your unconscious mind has that is why you are continually motivated to go ahead even if you don't know yet where it will bring you.
