So U think Vegan is healthy?

[Aractus]

---

Raw soy is toxic to all carnivores and omnivores. It's only non-toxic to herbivores.

Proof: The Health Dangers of Soy by Dr. Joseph Mercola

Now, since we know soy is toxic the onus of proof on whether processed soy is "safe to eat in moderate amounts" is on the one making the claim, and so far it has not been proven.

---

Wikipedia - Joseph Mercola
''A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial called his marketing practices as "relying on slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics."[3] In 2005, 2006, and 2011, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration warned Mercola and his company to stop making illegal claims regarding his products' ability to detect, prevent and treat disease.[7] The medical watchdog site Quackwatch has criticized Mercola for making "unsubstantiated claims and clash with those of leading medical and public health organizations [and making] many unsubstantiated recommendations for dietary supplements."[7]''

While that is a good point, it doesn't refute his health concerns about Soy since that charge relates to an entirely different matter. It's an even further way from proving that processed soy is healthy.

---

There are vegans that took oral B12 supplements and came to a point where their doctors told them the only way that they can continue their vegan diets is with intravenous B12, administered twice a year or so. That's why a lot of vegans that know about this are unable to tell you which B12 supplement to take to avoid B12 deficiency because the tablets have been proven not to work for everyone; just like how we have no drugs whatsoever that are effective for managing obesity - and in fact the drugs that have been on the market previously have been withdrawn.

---

You do realize you're at odds with National Institutes of Health on this? You never responded to this:

• http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitamin...fessional/
  
  "Existing evidence does not suggest any differences among forms with respect to absorption or bioavailability. However the body’s ability to absorb vitamin B12 from dietary supplements is largely limited by the capacity of intrinsic factor. For example, only about 10 mcg of a 500 mcg oral supplement is actually absorbed in healthy people [8]."

*note that 10 mcg is more than 4x the recommended daily allowance for adults.

As long as it's a biologically active form of B12, and as long as you have intrinsic factor, you will be able to absorb it. The form doesn't matter.
If somebody had to have it injected, maybe they weren't producing enough intrinsic factor.

What you've provided is in no way proof that B12 oral supplements can work for all or most long-term vegans. There are 15-year+ vegans that tried everything to increase the B12 before IV and were unable to - that's not a theory or anecdotal it's imperial evidence.

What you need to show that long-term vegans can absorb enough B12 from oral supplements is to get a few hundred long term vegans (who have been vegan for 15+ years), and show that B12 can be increased using oral supplements for all of them - so far no one has proven this or even come close, and thus at the moment the balance of evidence says that oral supplements may not work for all vegans, and particularly long-term vegans.

---

Eliminating an entire food group (or two, counting dairy separately) is not a balanced diet. Furthermore your comparison is uneven: meat is one food group out of five, and someone who eats only meat is eliminating four out of the five food groups. A vegan is eliminating two entire food groups: meat and dairy, that is not balanced. A paleo eliminates grain entirely, that also may not be balanced.

---

Meat is not a food group. The Food Guide Pyramid labels it Meat & beans, but the image also includes nuts and eggs in that area. It does include dairy as a food group, but the Harvard Healthy Eating Pyramid says "Dairy or vitamin D/Calcium supplements". However, there are some vegetables high in calcium, and mushrooms (a fungus) have vitamin D.

You're really splitting hairs. Beans can be considered in the vegetable group. Personally though, I don't believe beans belong in the same food group as meat or vegetables. The allergy to legumes is the fastest growing allergy in Australia, and also I believe in the USA. A few years ago I knew someone who was vegetarian (not vegan) and was unable to eat any gluten (wheat) or legumes/beans. She said her allergy to gluten was much worse than the one to peanuts, however she could not eat either.

Legumes are a grain, they belong in that food group. I'm not paleo - I'm not against eating your grains, however you have to realize that grains contain high levels of two things, those are: lectins and cellulose. Cellulose is dietary fibre, and while too much of it is not a good thing, most westerners do actually need more in their diet, so it's not a bad source for dietary fibre. Lectins are a protein and are not always good for us, the ones in seeds are an anti-nutrient and designed to protect the seed from being eaten. Lectins are in all meat, vegetables and fruit and do have other roles just like proteins. This is thought to be why most animals, besides birds that is, don't eat or do well with eating seeds (grains). It is true, however, that domestication has certainly reduced the concentration of lectins and this is evidenced by the fact we need to use pesticide to protect the grains, when originally the grains protected themselves.

Hmm, but Harvard considers "Fish, Poultry, and Eggs" a unique food group.

I agree with including eggs in the meat food group, and agree that dairy is its own food group, however it's a food group that not everyone can eat only those with lactose-persistence. I don't agree that red meat is separate to other meats in the food group - that's as silly as saying that rice and wheat are in two different food groups.