(February 8, 2010 at 3:18 pm)rjh4 Wrote:(February 8, 2010 at 12:40 pm)theVOID Wrote: There is no valid logical argument for the existence of God anywhere never has been, and almost certainly never will be.
Sounds like a truth claim to me.
Well if you know of one go and get it!
Quote:According to what you have said previously, in your view all truth claims are to be evaluated via the scientific method, which you have admitted does not provide certainty.
I view claims about Nature through the scientific method, anything that manifests in nature can be measured and studied, including the effects on our reality by supernatural forces, of which there are none currently testable.
If you have a logical argument, it gets examined like a logical argument... I make sure there are no fallacies or unproved assertions in the premise and see if the conclusion logically follows from there.
Quote:So...what is the scientific support for this truth claim of yours? I'm guessing you cannot show any scientific evidence to support such a claim.
1) I didn't make a truth claim
2) You don't use the scientific method to assess logical arguments!
Look, Either there is no valid logical argument for God or someone has one, but it's being hidden away and nobody uses it, nobody brings it up in debate, nobody else has ever thought of it and there is no way to compare it to an argument that doesn't exist, so lets drop all the fucking assumptions and stick with the most reasonable premise, that there exists currently no valid logical argument for the existence of God.
Quote:Furthermore, to make such a claim with any certainty whatsoever, one would have to have evaluated all such logical arguments that have ever been made up to this point in time. I doubt you or anyone else has done such an evaluation or has the ability to do such a thing.
You sound like a crybaby.
Do you know what this argument is? Or are you just proposing all these assumptive hypotheticals because you have nothing worth offering in way of a logical argument? Id's guess it's the latter.
I don't have absolute certainty that no argument exists, i just don't see the point in beating around the bush because the explanation for why this argument exists and nobody uses is an tangle of unfounded assumptions and hypothetical situations.
Quote:So it seems to me that making your statement with such certainty as you did is not consistent with your previously stated standards.
No it's not, you just seemingly have zero idea what my position is.
Quote:In addition, you have said:
"I don't claim to know that God does not exist, my position, and that of most Atheists, is that there is absolutely no logical reason to believe God exists.
It is essentially withholding judgement about God's existence indefinitely."
When I look at this statement in combination with your statements regarding logical or other evidence, it sure seems to me like you have already made a judgement about God's existence. It seems like you just state that you are withholding judgement just so you can sit back and reject any line of reasoning someone can put forth regarding the existence of God without providing any support for your real conclusion that God doesn't exist.
It's a fucking simple concept sweetheart:
I have ZERO evidence for the non-existence of God.
I have ZERO evidence for the existence of God.
I have ZERO reason to favor either position.
Get it?
Quote:Do you not see the glaring inconsistency in your worldview? You claim not to know that God does not exist, but you have no problem claiming "that there is absolutely no logical reason to believe God exists" or "There is no valid logical argument for the existence of God anywhere never has been, and almost certainly never will be."
Does it require faith to hold to such an inconsistent worldview?
I had no certainty about the existence of this logical argument, it was your mistake assuming that before you started your response. In response to Evie i clarified that and explained how the other explanation is a rather absurd conspiracy of the argument that someone has and nobody knows about, making the position that there is no valid logical argument a more reasonably position to hold. Simple Occams razor.
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