Strong Atheism starts from faith

[tackattack]

---

I appreciate your response, and I thank you for being courteous in your replies. This is why I like this topic.

I will respond but please see questions below as well ty.

1- I'm not sure that's the exact area of the psyche it resides.. see my response to dbp. otherwise yes my idea of God rests somewhere in my mind . (and a mind is a terrible thing to waste... who's too young for that phrase? )

That's very intellectually honest. I actually spoke to my mother about this yesterday. We established that God may just be a function of her imagination and a consoling force for the rougher parts of her life.

I have absolutely no problem with this.

3- You said

What are the hard facts?

and referenced Fr0d0's definition. Well he probably won't define it so if you define it I will attempt to answer it, or if not I'll just exclude question 3 from further discussion.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, and I really don't know what he means, since he believes that you can't have objective evidence of God. So let's just omit this one.

4-Specific life examples?
4.1-I can seperate experienced reality from rationalized reality, unwitnessed from observation. I was in a major car accident and had functional amnesia, was completely coherent yet all facts of the 24 hour period are from outside input, the brain wasn't on record for that time.
4.2-I have not been found mentally defective (physically or psychologically)
4.3-There is a strong distinction from the biological responses from stimuli and the "rushing of the spirit". I won't specify what outside stimuli on the forums (whether chemical or psychological).
4.5-Synchronicity every day, minor and major
4.6-Healing from laying on hand and prayer for others and self.
4.7-A galvanizing force, not explainable with my logic to originate from self, acting on my perception, will and control
4.8-a buried post waiting for seponse from Void

Finally a theist that puts their experiences into perspective.

I'm not going to try to invalidate your experiences in any way. You have your reasons to believe. I'd just make the point that there are definitely alternate explanations for all of those, but this is something you already know. Thanks again for your input.

A-Why does the premises of deductive logiic have to follow objective perception?
B-Could a premise be true and subjective?
C- Are you questioning the validity of my deductive reasoing or the soundness of my premisis?

A - Deductive reasoning, especially dealing with an objective claim, requires objective evidence.
B - I don't think a premise could be true and purely subjective, BUT if it is subjective, the person with the experience renders the objectivity, or lack thereof, irrelevant. Simply put, if a person accepts something subjective is true, then the objectivity of that claim is irrelevant for that person.
C - Not at all, your reasons are your reasons and it would be an exercise in futility to tell someone what they felt wasn't real.

exactly like all those other imaginary things like math, psychology, philosopy, quantum singularity, dark energy, ideas, etc. they can't possibly contribute to reality so lets trash them all.

I wouldn't group all of them together, but they are all conceptual, just like a belief in God. I've been saying for a while it doesn't matter if you believe something to be true - without verifiable and objective evidence you cannot make that claim. You have the intellectual honesty to admit that is a concept in your mind. My contention is that perhaps it doesn't go any further than that, as there is no evidence to show that it does.

I appreciate your responses, and I'm sure you have rebuttals to all of my writings.

---

I'll try to keep this concise since my conversations are spread over several PM's and lots of threads.

1- I believe you're associating my idea of God's aspects with the possibility of God's existence. They are distinctly different.
2-The beginings of my religion started with faith alone. I rejected my parent's faith and soughts answers for myself through other religions and attempted to reationalize their beliefs. Then I starting doubting any faith, so I guess I was an agnostic atheist for a while and was sufficed to live my own life. I applied logic and materialism to reality till I had developed those processes. After a time it seemed hollow and I found myself searching again. This time armed with reason (inductive and deductive) I went about assesing my beliefs in any and everything. When I came to religion. I then reassed my religious beliefs nad that's why I label myself as Christian. I used:
Observation: The collecting and organisation of empirical facts; Forming hypotheses.
My experiences lead me to for a hypothesis that God could exist. I place faith in that hypothesis for furthering of the study then ..
Inductive Reasoning- The quantum singularity (which I'm deeply studying now.. well procrastinating a tad bit) would be the only qualifiable falsifier for the premise.
Deduction: Deducting consequenses of hypotheses as testable predictions. I couldn't claim tru or false on this but it was valid IMO.
Testing: I tested, albeit subjective as best I could for something otuside the realm of the known universe and it was repeatable and seemed to coincide with peer review.
Evaluation: I am constantly evaluating reevaluating and going through the process again, which was one reason I'm here.
3- I believe you are underestimating my convictions. I freely admit that my concepts of God rest solely conceptually in my mind. That doesn't equal "there's no evidence for God". Those mental constructs (which I would group with math, etc.) along with inductive reasoning and subjective personal perspective and peer-review help me form my belief, which is well above the threshold of belief in God for me. I may not have developed the most accurate concept of what God is, but I have little doubt that God doesn't exist in some form beyond our current understanding.

4- Let's talk specifically about your alternate explinations for 4.3/5/6/7and 8. I'm too tired and have to go home and to bed. I've spent far too much time in my PM's so state your alternate explination please and we'll compare notes.