RE: Official Debate: ChadWooters vs Metis
July 28, 2015 at 5:41 pm
(This post was last modified: July 28, 2015 at 6:19 pm by Metis.
Edit Reason: Typos, Referencing and fixing bad phrasing.
)
Hello all, thanks for taking the time to read this and thank you Tiberius for agreeing to moderate this debate. While my English is usually of an acceptable standard I apologize if some of the points I am about to list are unclear, rushing composing this at 4am along with English not being my first language might lead to some odd phrasing.
At any rate I'll try to keep this as brief and as readable as I can. Aquinas' Five Ways (a.k.a the Quinquae Viae) form a core part of Medieval Christian and Modern Roman Catholic Theology, drawing heavily from the works of Aristotle, Roman Stoic philosophy and NeoPlatonism and it is claimed by these five ways even a pagan or atheist must accept the existence of a First Cause; this being what Aquinas described as God. Despite this fact Aquinas and his Summa has largely been forgotten by most Protestants, the Orthodox of Aquinas' time never took much interest in what he had to say due to the great schism centuries before and it is only Roman Catholics, Lutherans and the occasional Evangelical Evangelist who lists his proofs.
The Summa itself contains a vast treasure trove of theological thinking, it was designed initially to be used as a textbook for a full comprehensive course on Catholic Theology and it continues to serve its purpose well today. When it comes to apologetics however it falls flat upon its face, even in its period of publication several of his points were even condemned by his scholarly peers until it was later taken up with fevour by later Popes. I can see Chad has gone further and presented an exhibition of the infinitely ordered series which I shall address in my rebuttal in more detail but first and foremost, I must express why I feel Aquinas' Five ways cannot be considered reasonable rational proofs.
I.First Way: The Argument from Motion
This argument is fallacious from the outset and poses several more questions while providing no answer. Aquinas concluded that the first mover must be God. However, what motivated God to make the first move? Although motion cannot have infinite regression, this argument assumed that God had been either not moving from infinity or he has been moving ever since. What then is the source of his energy? If nothing can move itself, how then God was able to move himself?
It would be far more reasonable and certainly no less valid an explanation that an impersonal, unconscious force or energy was the first unmoved mover as according to the Big Bag Theory (and the Big Bounce for all you Physics Hipsters out there) all motions, space, energy and matter can be traced back to a singularity at the beginning of the universe. These explanations are more reasonable and supported by measurable and verifiable parameters and evidence such as the rate of expansion of the universe, the cosmic microwave background radiation and the distances between galaxies.
II. Second Way: Causation of Existence
Aquinas was half right when he claimed that anything that exists is caused by another and it's from this thought he forms the assumption that there could be no infinite regression of causes. However, if this assumption is as claimed then what caused God to exist? If nothing can cause itself to exist, how was God able to cause himself? If God has been in existence from eternity, what's so unreasonable for me to claim that the universe too has always existed? This latter assumption is far more reasonable. Remember Einstein? E=mc2? Yeah, this equation states that matter can be converted into energy and energy can be converted to matter. It is logical to suppose that matter and energy have always been in existence. The universe as we know today might just be one of the many manifestations of metamorphoses between matter and energy. On the other hand, apparent self-causation has been observed in sub-atomic particles in laboratory settings and quantum fluctuations are better models that could explain the creation of particles ex nihilo.
III. Third Way: Contingent and Necessary Objects
In this argument Aquinas tries to make the distinction between contingent or potential beings and necessary or actual beings. It doesn't work, modern physics has demonstrated that there are really no strict definitions of such things. In a universe as chaotic as ours, things may exist without necessarily being dependent of other things. On the other hand, as demonstrated by Einstein, matter and energy are indeed mutually dependent and their contingency and necessity are reflexive. Furthermore, there are hypothetical situations where backward causation is possible, temporal paradoxes excluded. The best example of this in theoretical physics is absorber theory (also called the Feynman Time-Symmetric theory). The idea is that this is an explanation of electrodynamics that is based on the assumption that a solution to the electromagnetic field equations has to be symmetric with reference to time-inversion or retro-causality.
IV. Fourth Way: The Argument from Degrees and Perfection
I'm trying to resist the temptation to comment upon what Chad has shared above but I must confess I was curious as to what he would share. Of the five ways, this one is often noticeably absent in evangelization and is rarely employed, and for good reason! In this argument, Aquinas attributed all positive absolutes to God as the standard for all things. God is perfection, he is the most beautiful, the most good, the most just, the most wise...You get the picture, whatever quality it is he embodies its absolute perfection.
That's all well and good, but if God is absolute perfection then surely that must also mean he is the perfection of all the negative attributes too? If he's the absolute perfection of justice then it can also be logically possible that God is the absolute perfection of evil. If there are degrees of sadism, then God must be the most sadistic. If there are degrees of madness, then God must be Sheogorath (high five if you get the reference RPG nerds). Hence, the so-called standard of “perfection” in monotheism creates a rather paradoxical and incomprehensible concept of divinity. How can God be the perfection of wisdom but also be the perfection of madness? For a dualistic pantheon this might work and to an extent it does on the matter of evil, Satan is set up as the Prince of Darkness but again he isn't the perfection of it; it's made clear there is a force greater and more perfect than he....
V. Fifth Way: The Argument from Intelligent Design
That's right Americans, this is where your school nightmares started from.
Intelligent design is pretty much a direct rip from Aristotle's concept of Teleological ends and feeds directly into the watch-maker argument. The universe is indeed complex and intricate but as I'm sure all you Dawkins readers know it does not necessarily mean that it requires a designer. Comparing the universe and biological systems to human-made objects such as a watch is committing the logical fallacy known as false analogy. The way the universe and biological systems operate are different from the way man-made objects operate but Aquinas can be forgiven for this mistake, if he had any knowledge of outer existence he would have subscribed to the Ptolemaic geocentric model and was taught from the very beginning existence itself exists to serve us, and that's without all the backing up from a literal interpretation of Genesis.
If a complex object needs a creator or designer, what could be more complex than a super-intelligent, all-powerful God? Who then created God? Does God have a higher God who in turn has a higher God? Aristotle knew himself this was a problem but Greek theology was rather more flexible than Abrahamic; Zeus himself was created by Rhea and Chronus, and even after Chronus' defeat he still himself had three superiors, the Fates (Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos) who in turn had their own superior, the "Unknown God" which you can actually see referenced in the Bible! (Acts 17:23) Contrary to the assumption of an intelligent and purposeful designer, the universe and biological systems exhibit randomness and probability. If the universe and biological systems were purposely designed, then they must not have any superfluous traits.
I could write more but my deadline swiftly approaches and I fear I may have already gotten bogged down too much in the details. Despite that, I think I have succeeded in explaining why the five ways cannot be considered any form of proof of the existence of a divinity. They're certainly theories one could pull out but not one that could be bandied around as bona fide proof in a philosophical academy let alone in wider post-enlightenment western society.
References (I've made and will continue to make an effort to only use works available in English-speaking countries bookstores rather than online journals you might need a subscription to get into)
Bowen-Jones, M, 2014 Oxford International Baccalaureate Diploma Course Companion: Physics . Oxford, Oxford University Press
Carter, R, 1990. God, The Self And Nothingness: Reflections Eastern and Western. 1st ed. New York: Paragon House.
Dawkins, R, 2006 The Blind Watchmaker. London, Penguin
Dawkins, R, 2007 The God Delusion [ebook reader]. Reading, Black Swan
Dennett, D, 2006 Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon. New York, Penguin.
Hyman, G, 2012 A Short History of Atheism. London, I.B Tauris.
Morris, B, 1987. Anthropological Studies of Religion. 1st ed. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Radford Ruether, R, 2002. Sexism and God-Talk. 3rd ed. Denmark: SCM Press.
At any rate I'll try to keep this as brief and as readable as I can. Aquinas' Five Ways (a.k.a the Quinquae Viae) form a core part of Medieval Christian and Modern Roman Catholic Theology, drawing heavily from the works of Aristotle, Roman Stoic philosophy and NeoPlatonism and it is claimed by these five ways even a pagan or atheist must accept the existence of a First Cause; this being what Aquinas described as God. Despite this fact Aquinas and his Summa has largely been forgotten by most Protestants, the Orthodox of Aquinas' time never took much interest in what he had to say due to the great schism centuries before and it is only Roman Catholics, Lutherans and the occasional Evangelical Evangelist who lists his proofs.
The Summa itself contains a vast treasure trove of theological thinking, it was designed initially to be used as a textbook for a full comprehensive course on Catholic Theology and it continues to serve its purpose well today. When it comes to apologetics however it falls flat upon its face, even in its period of publication several of his points were even condemned by his scholarly peers until it was later taken up with fevour by later Popes. I can see Chad has gone further and presented an exhibition of the infinitely ordered series which I shall address in my rebuttal in more detail but first and foremost, I must express why I feel Aquinas' Five ways cannot be considered reasonable rational proofs.
I.First Way: The Argument from Motion
This argument is fallacious from the outset and poses several more questions while providing no answer. Aquinas concluded that the first mover must be God. However, what motivated God to make the first move? Although motion cannot have infinite regression, this argument assumed that God had been either not moving from infinity or he has been moving ever since. What then is the source of his energy? If nothing can move itself, how then God was able to move himself?
It would be far more reasonable and certainly no less valid an explanation that an impersonal, unconscious force or energy was the first unmoved mover as according to the Big Bag Theory (and the Big Bounce for all you Physics Hipsters out there) all motions, space, energy and matter can be traced back to a singularity at the beginning of the universe. These explanations are more reasonable and supported by measurable and verifiable parameters and evidence such as the rate of expansion of the universe, the cosmic microwave background radiation and the distances between galaxies.
II. Second Way: Causation of Existence
Aquinas was half right when he claimed that anything that exists is caused by another and it's from this thought he forms the assumption that there could be no infinite regression of causes. However, if this assumption is as claimed then what caused God to exist? If nothing can cause itself to exist, how was God able to cause himself? If God has been in existence from eternity, what's so unreasonable for me to claim that the universe too has always existed? This latter assumption is far more reasonable. Remember Einstein? E=mc2? Yeah, this equation states that matter can be converted into energy and energy can be converted to matter. It is logical to suppose that matter and energy have always been in existence. The universe as we know today might just be one of the many manifestations of metamorphoses between matter and energy. On the other hand, apparent self-causation has been observed in sub-atomic particles in laboratory settings and quantum fluctuations are better models that could explain the creation of particles ex nihilo.
III. Third Way: Contingent and Necessary Objects
In this argument Aquinas tries to make the distinction between contingent or potential beings and necessary or actual beings. It doesn't work, modern physics has demonstrated that there are really no strict definitions of such things. In a universe as chaotic as ours, things may exist without necessarily being dependent of other things. On the other hand, as demonstrated by Einstein, matter and energy are indeed mutually dependent and their contingency and necessity are reflexive. Furthermore, there are hypothetical situations where backward causation is possible, temporal paradoxes excluded. The best example of this in theoretical physics is absorber theory (also called the Feynman Time-Symmetric theory). The idea is that this is an explanation of electrodynamics that is based on the assumption that a solution to the electromagnetic field equations has to be symmetric with reference to time-inversion or retro-causality.
IV. Fourth Way: The Argument from Degrees and Perfection
I'm trying to resist the temptation to comment upon what Chad has shared above but I must confess I was curious as to what he would share. Of the five ways, this one is often noticeably absent in evangelization and is rarely employed, and for good reason! In this argument, Aquinas attributed all positive absolutes to God as the standard for all things. God is perfection, he is the most beautiful, the most good, the most just, the most wise...You get the picture, whatever quality it is he embodies its absolute perfection.
That's all well and good, but if God is absolute perfection then surely that must also mean he is the perfection of all the negative attributes too? If he's the absolute perfection of justice then it can also be logically possible that God is the absolute perfection of evil. If there are degrees of sadism, then God must be the most sadistic. If there are degrees of madness, then God must be Sheogorath (high five if you get the reference RPG nerds). Hence, the so-called standard of “perfection” in monotheism creates a rather paradoxical and incomprehensible concept of divinity. How can God be the perfection of wisdom but also be the perfection of madness? For a dualistic pantheon this might work and to an extent it does on the matter of evil, Satan is set up as the Prince of Darkness but again he isn't the perfection of it; it's made clear there is a force greater and more perfect than he....
V. Fifth Way: The Argument from Intelligent Design
That's right Americans, this is where your school nightmares started from.
Intelligent design is pretty much a direct rip from Aristotle's concept of Teleological ends and feeds directly into the watch-maker argument. The universe is indeed complex and intricate but as I'm sure all you Dawkins readers know it does not necessarily mean that it requires a designer. Comparing the universe and biological systems to human-made objects such as a watch is committing the logical fallacy known as false analogy. The way the universe and biological systems operate are different from the way man-made objects operate but Aquinas can be forgiven for this mistake, if he had any knowledge of outer existence he would have subscribed to the Ptolemaic geocentric model and was taught from the very beginning existence itself exists to serve us, and that's without all the backing up from a literal interpretation of Genesis.
If a complex object needs a creator or designer, what could be more complex than a super-intelligent, all-powerful God? Who then created God? Does God have a higher God who in turn has a higher God? Aristotle knew himself this was a problem but Greek theology was rather more flexible than Abrahamic; Zeus himself was created by Rhea and Chronus, and even after Chronus' defeat he still himself had three superiors, the Fates (Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos) who in turn had their own superior, the "Unknown God" which you can actually see referenced in the Bible! (Acts 17:23) Contrary to the assumption of an intelligent and purposeful designer, the universe and biological systems exhibit randomness and probability. If the universe and biological systems were purposely designed, then they must not have any superfluous traits.
I could write more but my deadline swiftly approaches and I fear I may have already gotten bogged down too much in the details. Despite that, I think I have succeeded in explaining why the five ways cannot be considered any form of proof of the existence of a divinity. They're certainly theories one could pull out but not one that could be bandied around as bona fide proof in a philosophical academy let alone in wider post-enlightenment western society.
References (I've made and will continue to make an effort to only use works available in English-speaking countries bookstores rather than online journals you might need a subscription to get into)
Bowen-Jones, M, 2014 Oxford International Baccalaureate Diploma Course Companion: Physics . Oxford, Oxford University Press
Carter, R, 1990. God, The Self And Nothingness: Reflections Eastern and Western. 1st ed. New York: Paragon House.
Dawkins, R, 2006 The Blind Watchmaker. London, Penguin
Dawkins, R, 2007 The God Delusion [ebook reader]. Reading, Black Swan
Dennett, D, 2006 Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon. New York, Penguin.
Hyman, G, 2012 A Short History of Atheism. London, I.B Tauris.
Morris, B, 1987. Anthropological Studies of Religion. 1st ed. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Radford Ruether, R, 2002. Sexism and God-Talk. 3rd ed. Denmark: SCM Press.
