How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

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How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

Tonus

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Religious Views: Atheist

Posts: 7140
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Joined: March 14, 2013
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#48

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

July 23, 2015 at 1:27 pm

(July 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I also made the following argument in the past:

An effect needs a cause.

...unless it's a conveniently-defined "uncaused cause" or "prime mover" who is exempt from the rule. My point is that I can simply apply the rule to the universe itself. If we continue to apply the exemption to our reasoning, then the whole endeavor has been poisoned. I can simply modify my reasoning to allow for an eternal universe via explanations that consist of nothing but claims. I can try to ward off investigation of my approach by appealing to "obvious truths" and "submissive hearts." Reason does not consist of a bunch of imagined steps and convenient rules. That works well for myths and religion, but not if we're making an honest effort at finding out what really happened.

"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould

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Messages In This Thread

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 8:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 10:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 22, 2015 at 9:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Magilla - July 22, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 2:58 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Valkyrie - July 22, 2015 at 9:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 22, 2015 at 9:39 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 22, 2015 at 9:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 5:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 5:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Simon Moon - July 23, 2015 at 9:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 19, 2015 at 3:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 4:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:09 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:27 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 23, 2015 at 5:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 7:10 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - July 23, 2015 at 7:14 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 7:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 10:23 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 11:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - July 26, 2015 at 8:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:50 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - August 3, 2015 at 9:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:34 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:33 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:34 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:44 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 24, 2015 at 1:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 1:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 24, 2015 at 10:44 am

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 2:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 3:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 7:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 8:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 24, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 25, 2015 at 1:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 25, 2015 at 8:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - July 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 27, 2015 at 1:47 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LostLocke - July 27, 2015 at 8:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 27, 2015 at 12:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 27, 2015 at 8:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 28, 2015 at 3:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - August 2, 2015 at 11:48 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 8:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 9:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 10:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 3, 2015 at 10:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 12:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 7:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 9:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - August 3, 2015 at 10:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 10:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 8:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 4, 2015 at 1:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 4, 2015 at 1:26 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 2:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 6, 2015 at 3:15 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 7:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 21, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 9:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 8, 2015 at 1:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 6, 2015 at 2:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 3:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:30 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 4:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 7, 2015 at 1:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 2:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 7, 2015 at 3:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - August 7, 2015 at 5:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Lucanus - August 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 7, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - August 7, 2015 at 2:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - September 7, 2015 at 3:12 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 5:01 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 8, 2015 at 3:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 2:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 9, 2015 at 5:18 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 5:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 5:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 3:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 10, 2015 at 5:45 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - September 10, 2015 at 5:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - September 10, 2015 at 7:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 12, 2015 at 1:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 3:08 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 6:16 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 1:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 13, 2015 at 7:13 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 2:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 11:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 14, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 11:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - September 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 2:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 5:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 19, 2015 at 2:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 19, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 21, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rational AKD - September 19, 2015 at 4:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 8:57 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 11:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 12:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 6:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 12:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 12:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:03 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 1:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 2:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:52 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 20, 2015 at 9:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 12:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 3:58 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:17 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 9:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2015 at 11:25 am

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