How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

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How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

Rational AKD Offline

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Religious Views: Idealist, Panentheist, Christian, Molinist

Posts: 326
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#166

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard

September 19, 2015 at 4:43 pm (This post was last modified: September 19, 2015 at 4:44 pm by Rational AKD.)

(July 22, 2015 at 8:13 pm)Dystopia Wrote: 1 - Everything that exists has or needs a cause

2 - The universe began to exist

3 - Therefore, the universe needs a cause

I would say this is simply a bad version of the argument... but it reeks terribly of editing. why does the first premise state 'everything that exists has a cause' while the second premise says 'the universe began to exist'? why would you need to word it that way in light of the first premise? the wording of the premises are inconsistent... which can only lead me to believe you edited the first premise to make it more objectionable. i'm sure you won't admit to doing that since that would indeed be very dishonest of you... but i'll leave it for everyone else to decide why your premise wordings are inconsistent.

the actual wording of premise 1 of the KCA should be 'everything that begins to exist has a cause.' so there's really no special pleading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKKIvmcO5LQ

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo

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Messages In This Thread

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 8:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 22, 2015 at 8:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Minimalist - July 22, 2015 at 10:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 22, 2015 at 9:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Magilla - July 22, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 2:58 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Valkyrie - July 22, 2015 at 9:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 22, 2015 at 9:39 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 22, 2015 at 9:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 5:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 5:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Simon Moon - July 23, 2015 at 9:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 19, 2015 at 3:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 4:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:09 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 19, 2015 at 9:16 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 19, 2015 at 9:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:27 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by ignoramus - July 23, 2015 at 5:40 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 7:10 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - July 23, 2015 at 7:14 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 7:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 10:23 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 11:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:04 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Tonus - July 23, 2015 at 1:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - July 26, 2015 at 8:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:50 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - August 3, 2015 at 9:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 5, 2015 at 10:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 23, 2015 at 11:34 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 11:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:33 pm

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 12:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:34 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - July 23, 2015 at 12:44 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 12:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:24 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Iroscato - July 23, 2015 at 12:49 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 12:50 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 24, 2015 at 1:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 1:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JuliaL - July 23, 2015 at 1:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 24, 2015 at 10:44 am

How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by KUSA - July 23, 2015 at 2:27 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 3:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 7:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 23, 2015 at 8:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 2:42 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 24, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 25, 2015 at 1:02 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 25, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Dystopia - July 25, 2015 at 8:30 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - July 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - July 27, 2015 at 1:47 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Anomalocaris - August 2, 2015 at 11:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LostLocke - July 27, 2015 at 8:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - July 27, 2015 at 12:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - July 27, 2015 at 8:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Brian37 - July 28, 2015 at 3:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - August 2, 2015 at 11:48 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 8:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 9:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 9:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 3, 2015 at 10:43 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 3, 2015 at 10:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 12:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 1:46 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 7:57 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 8:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 3, 2015 at 9:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - August 3, 2015 at 10:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 3, 2015 at 10:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 10:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Aristocatt - August 3, 2015 at 8:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 4, 2015 at 1:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 4, 2015 at 1:26 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 2:39 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 6, 2015 at 3:15 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - August 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 7:21 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 21, 2015 at 8:35 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 9:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:03 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 6, 2015 at 10:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 8, 2015 at 1:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 6, 2015 at 6:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 6, 2015 at 2:29 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 6, 2015 at 3:07 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:30 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - August 7, 2015 at 1:23 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 4:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Pizza - August 7, 2015 at 1:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 2:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - August 7, 2015 at 3:36 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - August 7, 2015 at 5:49 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - August 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Longhorn - August 7, 2015 at 1:05 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Lucanus - August 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by JesusHChrist - August 7, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - August 7, 2015 at 2:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by snowtracks - September 7, 2015 at 3:12 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:41 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 4:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 7, 2015 at 4:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 7, 2015 at 5:01 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 7, 2015 at 12:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Grandizer - September 8, 2015 at 3:37 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 2:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 9, 2015 at 5:18 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 9, 2015 at 5:40 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 5:33 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 3:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 2:52 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 3:32 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 4:38 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by pocaracas - September 10, 2015 at 5:45 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 10, 2015 at 1:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by LastPoet - September 10, 2015 at 5:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:02 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Alex K - September 10, 2015 at 7:19 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 10, 2015 at 7:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 5:26 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 12, 2015 at 1:37 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 3:08 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 6:16 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 1:28 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 13, 2015 at 7:13 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 13, 2015 at 2:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 13, 2015 at 11:08 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by strawberryBacteria - September 14, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 14, 2015 at 11:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Cephus - September 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 2:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 14, 2015 at 5:18 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 19, 2015 at 2:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 19, 2015 at 4:59 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Ronkonkoma - September 21, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rhondazvous - September 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Rational AKD - September 19, 2015 at 4:43 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 8:57 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 11:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:35 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 12:13 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Neo-Scholastic - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Angrboda - September 20, 2015 at 6:17 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 12:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 12:56 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:03 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 1:29 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 20, 2015 at 1:55 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by houseofcantor - September 21, 2015 at 6:51 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Losty - September 20, 2015 at 2:44 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 2:52 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 20, 2015 at 9:53 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 11:42 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by Esquilax - September 20, 2015 at 12:33 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 1:41 pm

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 3:58 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:17 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:25 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:32 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:38 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:46 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 9:22 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:48 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:54 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 10:59 am

RE: How to debunk the first cause argument without trying too hard - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2015 at 11:25 am

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