Dylann Roof sentenced to death

[Shell B]

Naturally, since it's current state is...well...it's current state.

I also object to its current state, so we're on the same page.

I've also expressed my objections to your proposed improvements of that state.  Beyond thinking that those improvements, a cheap(er) and flawless system, are beyond silly as expectations of anything that we could ever achieve in the real world

I don't think it's silly to have a hypothetical picture of what things could look like if people took their heads out of their asses. We absolutely should expect more of the real world than what it's conjuring up at present.

...supposing we could, I'd still object to the death penalty on the grounds that -I- find the most compelling, which you may not.  Limits to the power and authority of the State.

I find that compelling. I'm old school like that. Still, you can create limits while giving them some power. Obviously, that's not something that's achievable now, but I see no reason not to imagine it.

I can understand those criteria.  You've compartmentalized it (not criticizing, just noticing).

I've compartmentalized it because that's the absolute and only fraction of this issue where I'm okay with the death penalty. Why wouldn't I compartmentalize it? I try not to speak in generalities. If I said I was against the death penalty, I'd be lying. If I said I was for it, I'd also be lying. It is not simple. It is an issue with a lot of compartments. That happens to be the one I was interested in talking about in my first post in this thread.

I'd chit-chat about this more, but I don't think we necessarily disagree. I just think we find different points on the issue the more pertinent. There are maybe five-ten cases out of who knows many a decade that we wouldn't agree on. In the big picture, generally, you might say, we're not at odds, for lack of a better term.

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Naturally, since it's current state is...well...it's current state.  I've also expressed my objections to your proposed improvements of that state.  Beyond thinking that those improvements, a cheap(er) and flawless system, are beyond silly as expectations of anything that we could ever achieve in the real world...supposing we could, I'd still object to the death penalty on the grounds that -I- find the most compelling, which you may not.  Limits to the power and authority of the State.  The State, by it's very nature, wields a broad and terrifying ability, even when it steps lightly, even when every precaution is taken.  

I can understand those criteria.  You've compartmentalized it (not criticizing, just noticing).

Shell B, it isn't your reaction to Roof. At least for me my argument is it is simply pointing out we don't live in an ideal society where that would work. It doesn't work as a deterrent because we still have murders. It doesn't work on an economic level because it costs far more to prosecute with the case then the following appeals. It doesn't work because those who don't have a bank account large enough to counter the prosecution so that leaves those with less means at a disadvantage. And admittedly for purely selfish reasons, I know what  it is like to have large numbers hate you when you didn't do it.

It is an oversimplification to simply call them garbage and want to throw them out like trash. I agree Roof is trash, but again, we are talking about an entire system of laws we all live under and climates of attitudes change over time as the powers shift over time. You have to take the larger sample in the entire history. Even scientific method wont allow you to cherry pick your samples. 

Your criteria would only work in an ideal world. 

I think a long term tactic would be to have a society where parents are trained as well as kids things like conflict resolution skills, learn to spot abuse and or mental illness, fund those things, and have livable wages so you have more safety nets to catch a problem. We've had "lock em up and throw away the key for decades now, and even outside murder, we have clear evidence that does not work.

Is there no reason to strive for a more ideal, if not ideal, world?