A question to all atheists!

[pocaracas]

What's with the idiotic quoting?
Are you unable to use a simple online forum?

Also, what is it with everything you type having some non-default color?

I'll fix it in my quote of your mess

Let's try again... once more... now with me on a full keyboard, not that clumsy phone one...

So... if we, in our limited reasoning capabilities, cannot think of even a hypothetical scenario for that, does it automatically mean that it's impossible?

My response implies that you cannot grasp the implications of your inability to think about it. Not all that gibberish that you think you understood.
But first I had to make the groundwork and make you understand how our words and the concepts they convey and the way we think with those concepts are manifestly insufficient to describe the scenario you wish to portray.

But you do wish to portray that scenario of timelessness and then apply conventional concepts to it, when that makes no sense. If none of us can even conceptualize it, how can anyone provide a mechanism that brings about our space-time based Universe from such a setup?

I'm curious why you keep talking about a "natural world". Is there anything else?
If there is anything beyond our Universe, is it also not natural?

Let's try again... once more... now with me on a full keyboard, not that clumsy phone one...

What about your clumsy brain?

Are you always this nice to people, or is it just when you're behind a keyboard&screen?
KEBCAK

So... if we, in our limited reasoning capabilities, cannot think of even a hypothetical scenario for that, does it automatically mean that it's impossible?

P -> Q
P
Therefore,
Q

I can't think of a hypothetical where, given the information here and here, would not result in the conclusion Q. Can you? I'm all ears if you can. However, saying something is possible is cheap, brah. I could say that it's possible for the Spaghetti Monster to exist, but that doesn't make it so, now does it? You're going to have to provide an argument as well. After you've done that, go to the mirror, and then punch yourself in the face for being retard. Because you just tried destroying logic. The very thing you're trying (and failing) to use against me. You're guilty of sawing off the limb on which you stand.

Moving on...

Yeah... move on.... because you're just describing yourself.

My response implies that you cannot grasp the implications of your inability to think about it. Not all that gibberish that you think you understood.
But first I had to make the groundwork and make you understand how our words and the concepts they convey and the way we think with those concepts are manifestly insufficient to describe the scenario you wish to portray.

But you do wish to portray that scenario of timelessness and then apply conventional concepts to it, when that makes no sense. If none of us can even conceptualize it, how can anyone provide a mechanism that brings about our space-time based Universe from such a setup?
I'm curious why you keep talking about a "natural world". Is there anything else?
If there is anything beyond our Universe, is it also not natural?

For your benefit, I will give you the definition of a possible world. A possible world is a maximum description of reality that is logically coherent (at the very least). Please pay attention to the last bit.

Now, I can't think of a possible world where literally nothing--that with zero potentiality, nonexistence, etc.--could timelessly produce a natural world. I don't know of any evidence of it and it appears to be logically unsound. The idea of this happening appears to be logically incoherent in the same way denying the truth of Modus Ponens would be. If you want to say that it is possible or other such gobbledygook, then please attach evidence or an argument to it, because, say it with me, possibilities are cheap. In light of logic and contemporary evidence, there is no good reason to believe that this can happen. And if no possible world can exhibit the above characteristics, then that possible world is, in fact, impossible. Impossible in the same way that Modus Ponens cannot fail.

Do you want to read the idiocy you're writing and realize how stupid it is?
Or do you need me to type it up for you?

---

I never said I believe in anything. You're the one saying that...
You're the one who is claiming that it is impossible for something to happen to that "zero potentiality world".
I'm merely saying that there are many concepts we take for granted and which we cannot apply to such a "world".

And our logic relies heavily on such concepts, so it is bound to break, even if you apply what appears to be a totally valid logic reasoning.

---

Which brings us to the possible world that we reside in (the actual world). Because of the above, I conclude that we live in a possible world where time, along with the natural world, has always existed. And there's nothing logically incoherent about the natural world, including time, always existing. If you think there is, then again, I'm all ears. Let's see an argument or some evidence. Otherwise, shut the fuck up you inbred monkey.

Here again, you lack humility to acknowledge what I write.

The word always is deeply connected with the existence of time. If our Universe doesn't have a past-infinite, that always refers simply to the time since time began.... and this remains valid. Logically and formally valid.
Always is also obviously valid in a past-infinite universe - it is probably what you're thinking of.

In the past-finite case, we have no information about how time (or anything else) can come about (and keep in mind that this wording is totally wrong). So the first reply you got on this thread is the best there is: I don't know.




I did notice, however, that you failed to address my question. Here it is again:
I'm curious why you keep talking about a "natural world". Is there anything else?
If there is anything beyond our Universe, is it also not natural?

---

oh.... banned.... nvm, then.