Christians

[Godscreated]

---

I have witnessed some extraordinary mental gymnastics here over the years but I cannot even imagine the sort required to argue that "a god" constitutes polytheism. Statler beat me to the punch when he said, "You just proved his point." When you are reduced to stating that "a god" constitutes polytheism, it would seem the confusion is indeed yours.

I laughed when I read this, trying to take in the overwhelming irony of a Christian defending the concept of the Trinity (and citing arguments presented by Statler to boot) accusing a skeptic of "mental gymnastics". You've done some textbook projection here before, Ryft, but this one takes the cake.

Yes, Ryft, you claim to believe in "one god". The part you gloss over is that this "one god" is composed of three separate beings. That's where the polytheism part comes in. It's not the "one god" that's polytheistic. It's the "three separate beings" part. Essentially, Trinitarian Christianity is unique among religions in that it is both monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time. Anyone who seriously tries to defend this concept should not bandy around accusations of "mental gymnastics" and "confusion".

---

It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is. First thing here is that no christians I know, and that would be many, believe that God is three separate Gods. We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons, not three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I do not understand why you can not see this, or maybe you can and do not want to admit your argument is wrong. Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will. Every polytheistic religion has different gods with different agenda and this is not so in christianity, the three persons of Yehweh have the same will (agenda).

Which one of the brothers in christ is going to be the first one to say, "your human mind just cannot comprehend it, because god is so amazing" ??

...but this is what's most interesting about this post:

Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will.

Your own Bible contradicts this argument again and again. The Son is often NOT PRIVY to the will of the Father. The Son also specifically asks the Father questions. The Son is supposedly "the great intercessor" for man. CLEARLY, they are not of the same mind, same thoughts and same will.

Also, to all of you who are defending the Trinity of god by telling Paladin, "no, it makes complete sense - you just don't understand." This is NOT a valid argument anywhere on planet earth where a legitimate debate is taking place, religious or otherwise. So stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else by using it.

I have not tried to insult everyones intelligence, what I did was to point out that by his own arguments that DP does not understand the trinity or he does and doesn't want to give up his argument, I think it's the latter but then that's me.

Christ did not always speak from His divinity, He also spoke from His humanity, as when He said, "I have come to do the Father's will and not my own," Christ understood the weakness of man. When Christ spoke from His divinity He would say things of this nature, John 10:30 " I and the Father are one." Later in chapter 10 when the Jews wanted to stone Him, Christ said V.37 "Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. In John 14:7 Christ tells Thomas " If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well." In the same chapter Christ tells Philip v.9 " Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? Cinjin, you need to reconize when Christ speaks from His humanity and when He speaks from His divinity to truly understand what the meaning of the passage is. I could go on and on with passages that show that the Son and Father are one God along with the Holy Spirit, but I think you can see what I'm saying with these few verses.
I will be out of town for a few days so I can not respond until wednesday at the earliest. Sorry, a death in the family calls us away.

---

---

It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is. First thing here is that no christians I know, and that would be many, believe that God is three separate Gods. We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons, not three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I do not understand why you can not see this, or maybe you can and do not want to admit your argument is wrong. Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will. Every polytheistic religion has different gods with different agenda and this is not so in christianity, the three persons of Yehweh have the same will (agenda).

Which one of the brothers in christ is going to be the first one to say, "your human mind just cannot comprehend it, because god is so amazing" ??

...but this is what's most interesting about this post:

Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will.

Your own Bible contradicts this argument again and again. The Son is often NOT PRIVY to the will of the Father. The Son also specifically asks the Father questions. The Son is supposedly "the great intercessor" for man. CLEARLY, they are not of the same mind, same thoughts and same will.

Also, to all of you who are defending the Trinity of god by telling Paladin, "no, it makes complete sense - you just don't understand." This is NOT a valid argument anywhere on planet earth where a legitimate debate is taking place, religious or otherwise. So stop insulting the intelligence of everyone else by using it.

---

^
^
^
YOU JUST GOT CINJINIZED. KAPOW!

Surely not. Kaput

---

It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is. ... We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons

Which is precisely what I said the Trinity is supposed to be.

however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will. Every polytheistic religion has different gods with different agenda and this is not so in christianity, the three persons of Yehweh have the same will (agenda).

TRIPLE FAIL.

Same will? The Bible says that Jesus, just before his arrest, prayed to his father and asked the cup be taken from him but then said "not my will but yours be done". This establishes that there are two separate wills at work here.

Same mind? Jesus in the Gospel of John proclaims that "none come to the Father except through me". This establishes Jesus as the intercessor between humanity and Yahweh. An intercessor is, by definition, a separate "mind", else we have Jesus saying "no one comes to me except through me."

Same thoughts? Jesus says that the father alone knows when the end of days will be, that even the son doesn't know.

I guess the Bible authors didn't understand the Trinity either.

See above reply to Cinjin. The scriptures say that the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God, and Christ is saying that there's order to Yahweh and He also knows that He is returning, He told this to His disciples on more than one occasion, and knew this before the beginning of time, so yes they are of one will and one mind and one thought.