Evidence that God exists

[Mark]

There's equal logic in the whole story with a deity not at its center. And since the supposed deity has never shown himself or caused any known effects, what is the point of entertaining the possiblility of his existence, let alone wallowing in his worship?

Silly point. God cannot be provable or all religions are wrong. You're another that clings to this strange idea.

Calling someone's argument silly is neither very polite nor rhetorically germaine, fr0d0.

You said, "God cannot be provable or all religions are wrong." Is this supposed to be my point, or yours? It implies, "If God is provable, then all religions are wrong." I can only say that to me, that statement seems highly obtuse. I would have thought that if God were provable, then at least one religion were right. So this point certainly is not mine.

In any case, my point did not concern the question of whether it is possible to prove the existence of God. My point was that when one looks at the world, one never sees a god and one never sees any god's effects. All one ever sees is the natural world, flowing along chaotically according to fairly well understood physical and chemical principles. Nor is there any credible evidence that it has ever been otherwise. I believe I'm entitled to doubt, for instance, that a single loaf ever fed five thousand people -- not unless they got mighty small portions. Further, to put it succinctly, prayer availeth not. So what is the use of worrying about, still less worshiping, a supposed divinity that never does anything and never shows up?

"Enriching?" Well, many people find reading the Bible every day "enriching," but after you've read the whole thing once, anything further is a waste of time. There are many books besides that one that are much more deserving to be read. And which among the world's many religions would be "enriching" to study? All of them? Or do you suggest a particular one?

The bible is incredibly complex. People have dedicated lifetimes to it and only uncovered a little. I think it's foolish to say that. There are also many many expressions of the phenomenon. All are valid IMHO.

Well, my view is that too much attention has been devoted to this particular work of ancient literature, which I admit is an interesting expression of the religious ideas prevalent during the times when its various books were written, and also offers some interesting accounts of ancient history. It is certainly not a coherent work, but highly disparate texts cast into a single volume. All good literature is complex, of course, but most of the complexity of studying the Bible arises when one takes on the added burden of trying to reconcile it all with a single, coherent set of religious doctrines. That sad and hopeless task is what has cost people lifetimes of labor. No collection of literary works as obscure and varied these is able to be reconciled with a coherent set of doctrines.

Broadly, what is worth spending one's time on? I'm a USCF-rated chess master, and I find the study of the game, which is deep, to be enriching. But I wouldn't recommend it to everyone. Religion I would recommend to no one, since its a waste time to study what is transparently false.

You're entitled to your opinion. You condemn it without ever seeing the logic of it (from what you said on your intro post). Chess, I'd suggest, being a fan myself, is a much narrower discipline, perhaps suited to a certain type of mind. What is it other than purely a challenge of logic? Religion, on the other hand, offers a full life. Doesn't seem much contest.

Well, life offers a full life, doesn't it? I like to think that I have led full life, and I certainly intend to live the rest of my life as fully as I can. Nor do I think that my atheism is in any way inconsistent with this.

You'll never catch me in church on Sunday morning though, listening to some priest or pastor drone on about my obligation to give him money. No, I usually spend Sunday morning reading the New York Times and drinking a cup of black coffee.

As for the "logic" of religion, you're right, I have never perceived any, but I would be happy to listen to anyone's explanation of it.