RE: Quick Poll - Do you believe in God?
October 16, 2011 at 9:19 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2011 at 9:20 pm by IATIA.)
(October 16, 2011 at 8:05 pm)mastertrell Wrote: You and IATIA both have good points I will address. First for the cause and effect assumption IATIA brought up. Yes you can lump all instances into one or the other intial starting category I was talking about. The universe was either logical or illogical in it’s creation, they are mutually exclusive, meaning that to be in one they can’t be in the other. Now we now concretely about logic and what entails a logical principle, so ANY logical cosmological model would be grouped into the logical creation model, and by any I mean any, the framework accounts for scientific discoveries not yet made or unknown. Now if by “every instance” can’t be accounted for you mean the certain instances where the universe just tends to form itself first without cause, or changes it’s internal working laws over time without corresponding affects to influence it, then yes your right that is illogical so we group all illogical theories on the other side in the illogical creation model. If you do come up with some highly contorted creation model that incorporates both logical and illogical elements then by reasoning it contains illogical elements and thus satisfies the condition in which a process outside of logic started the universe.
Logic is based on proven or accepted premises and as I do not accept causality as a fact or premise, this then requires proof of causality to establish that as a premise.
To accept causality requires an uncaused beginning (which breaks causality anyway) or we have infinite regression, neither of which I can logically accept.
If the uncaused beginning were to be a god, that is just as illogical because this god would necessitate a first thought or desire. Another uncaused event. If this god's first thought can cause it's first thought (which, in and of itself, I have no issue with at this time), then the universe can cause itself.
Unless you have definitive proof that causality is an absolute then that is an unacceptable premise.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy