(June 23, 2015 at 8:34 am)Little Rik Wrote: If you already got the evidence what's the need to reach a conclusion?If you have evidence, it logically follows that you will reach a conclusion. That's the idea. Are you actually saying that evidence makes no difference to the conclusion you reach? Because that would explain a lot of your posts.
Little Rik Wrote:If the consciousness is a state where is the real you?What do you mean by "the real you"? My personality? That's a part of my mind, which is a function of the brain. Consciousness describes your state of awareness. If you can't differentiate between consciousness, the mind, and the personality, then maybe you should be doing some more reading and a lot less posting.
Little Rik Wrote:I certainly do Ton.Your responses do not indicate this to be the case.
Little Rik Wrote:You keep on saying that the consciousness is a product of the brain.I have never said that consciousness is a product of the brain. Consciousness is a state. Again, how can you get this stuff wrong when it is literally written down for you to check?
Did i ascribe to you this or you said this?
Little Rik Wrote:Those who had a real NDE clearly say that the consciousness or spirit soul leave the dead body so by saying that NDEs have nothing to do with souls you contradict yourself.No. Those who have had an NDE experienced a certain sensation, and described what they saw and heard. People who have had an NDE induced by other means described the very same thing. This is no different than having a dream. Most people have dreams where we fly, but it doesn't mean we can fly in real life.
Little Rik Wrote:You may have learned what someone guess.I have been reading about what other people are learning, because they test their hypotheses and theories with experiments and research. You, on the other hand, make one guess after another and insist that it is truth. But you apparently don't even bother to think about whether your guesses make sense, much less plan experiments and test your guesses. I think I'll put my faith in the guys who do more than toss darts at the wall.
You certainly have NOT learn the truth.
Little Rik Wrote:Ton, Ton it is YOU that make claims not me and therefore it is YOU that got to back your claims up.Do you ever get any of these attributions right? I said that testing and experimentation and research into NDEs have not turned up any evidence of souls or spirits, just the workings of the brain. YOU are saying that it is proof of a soul or spirit. Your only proof is the NDEs themselves, which research does NOT link to souls or spirits, only to brain states. Therefore, you have NO proof. You don't even have evidence to point to.
Didn't you claim that NDEs have nothing to do with souls?
Little Rik Wrote:Science in this particular medical field boast time and time again that what they came up with was the solution.That's not what you said. You said that science claimed to have "got[ten] rid of malaria." Show me where they made that claim. I am accusing you of making that up. Prove me wrong.
Little Rik Wrote:Thousand upon thousand of people in the present and in the past die and then came back to life (NDEs).No, they didn't. You do understand the definition of "near"? Then again, maybe you don't, considering how loose you play with definitions. Those people were NEAR death. They never died.
Little Rik Wrote:A lot of them agree that God is there.So? Do they all describe meeting the exact same god, with the exact same message, so that we can tell for sure that they're meeting the one true god? Or are their experiences heavily dependent on what they believe and what their culture describes as god and heaven? Because if it's the latter... oops.
Little Rik Wrote:If the matter is more important than the consciousness then your computer should write a post for you.With the advances in artificial intelligence, that day is probably nearer than we think. And let's face it, if a computer was writing YOUR posts, they might make sense.
Little Rik Wrote:No need to think Ton.That does seem to be your philosophy, yes.
Isn't that beautiful?
Little Rik Wrote:The best part is that no matter where you are or who you are or what culture you live in......... but as far as you don't use your mind nothing will happen.Like I said, give it time. I can only imagine the fits that A.I. will cause you, as you try to determine if A.I. means that a computer has a conscious mind or soul. One more barrier knocked down by science, this time for laughs.
The computer will not be able to write something for you.
Little Rik Wrote:So you should realize that is not abstract?Yep. It's not. That word doesn't really make sense when applied to a state like consciousness. What is so abstract about an on/off switch?
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould