(June 23, 2015 at 9:28 am)Tonus Wrote:(June 23, 2015 at 8:34 am)Little Rik Wrote: If you already got the evidence what's the need to reach a conclusion?Quote:If you have evidence, it logically follows that you will reach a conclusion. That's the idea. Are you actually saying that evidence makes no difference to the conclusion you reach? Because that would explain a lot of your posts.
I am saying that the evidence and the conclusion must match.
If your conclusion differ from the evidence then your conclusion is crap.
Little Rik Wrote:If the consciousness is a state where is the real you?Quote:What do you mean by "the real you"? My personality? That's a part of my mind, which is a function of the brain. Consciousness describes your state of awareness. If you can't differentiate between consciousness, the mind, and the personality, then maybe you should be doing some more reading and a lot less posting.
Why do some more reading when both the consciousness and the mind are just part of the same I.
It is all inside you not in the books.
Let us do one thing Ton.
You keep on reading your books and i keep on expanding my self with yoga and at the end let us see who got more consciousness.
Little Rik Wrote:You keep on saying that the consciousness is a product of the brain.
Did i ascribe to you this or you said this?Quote:I have never said that consciousness is a product of the brain. Consciousness is a state. Again, how can you get this stuff wrong when it is literally written down for you to check?
Oh, Ton how sad.
You only say that the mind is a product of the brain so when you say that you probably mean that consciousness and mind are two separate thing.
Do you Ton?
Very interesting Ton.
So please explain what is the difference among the two.
By the way on 3 June when i write......
......The atheistic idea that the consciousness mind is a product of the brain will
have sooner or later be smashed in pieces......you didn't say that there is a difference between the two that is why i got the idea that
you understand that mind and consciousness are the same part of the same thing with the difference that they are just different layer of the same I.
Little Rik Wrote:Those who had a real NDE clearly say that the consciousness or spirit soul leave the dead body so by saying that NDEs have nothing to do with souls you contradict yourself.Quote:No. Those who have had an NDE experienced a certain sensation, and described what they saw and heard. People who have had an NDE induced by other means described the very same thing. This is no different than having a dream. Most people have dreams where we fly, but it doesn't mean we can fly in real life.
If you are such an expert in NDEs why don't you explain why so many people see God and not Santa?
Now is the time for you to read and learn a bit about NDEs.
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...s_main.htm
Little Rik Wrote:You may have learned what someone guess.
You certainly have NOT learn the truth.Quote:I have been reading about what other people are learning, because they test their hypotheses and theories with experiments and research. You, on the other hand, make one guess after another and insist that it is truth. But you apparently don't even bother to think about whether your guesses make sense, much less plan experiments and test your guesses. I think I'll put my faith in the guys who do more than toss darts at the wall.
You see Ton, the problem with testing something abstract with something physical is not that easy.
Would you try to fix your plumbing pipes by calling an electrician or try to fix your electrical problems by
calling a plumber?
The same thing apply when you want to test something with the correct tools.
Physical can be tested with physical means and spiritual things with spiritual means.
Is this so difficult to understand?
Little Rik Wrote:Ton, Ton it is YOU that make claims not me and therefore it is YOU that got to back your claims up.
Didn't you claim that NDEs have nothing to do with souls?Quote:Do you ever get any of these attributions right? I said that testing and experimentation and research into NDEs have not turned up any evidence of souls or spirits, just the workings of the brain. YOU are saying that it is proof of a soul or spirit. Your only proof is the NDEs themselves, which research does NOT link to souls or spirits, only to brain states. Therefore, you have NO proof. You don't even have evidence to point to.
Again, these researcher think that by physical means they can understand something spiritual.
Wrong tool once again Ton.
Little Rik Wrote:Science in this particular medical field boast time and time again that what they came up with was the solution.Quote:That's not what you said. You said that science claimed to have "got[ten] rid of malaria." Show me where they made that claim. I am accusing you of making that up. Prove me wrong.
Opsh Ton, sorry for prove you wrong.
Recent malaria history is fraught with grand pronouncements that turned out to be baseless. "MALARIA VACCINE IS NEAR," announced a New York Times headline in 1984. "This is the last major hurdle," said one U.S. scientist quoted in the article. "There is no question now that we will have a vaccine. The rest is fine-tuning." Seven years of fine-tuning later, another Times headline summarized the result: "EFFORT TO FIGHT MALARIA APPEARS TO HAVE FAILED." In the late 1990s, Colombian immunologist Manuel Patarroyo claimed, with much media fanfare, that he had found the answer to malaria with his vaccine, SPf-66. Early results were tantalizing, but follow-up studies in Thailand showed it worked no better than a placebo.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/07...text6.html
Little Rik Wrote:Thousand upon thousand of people in the present and in the past die and then came back to life (NDEs).Quote:No, they didn't. You do understand the definition of "near"? Then again, maybe you don't, considering how loose you play with definitions. Those people were NEAR death. They never died.
So you reckon that all those doctors that declared a patient dead are all impostors?
Didn't i said that you are hilarious?
Little Rik Wrote:A lot of them agree that God is there.Quote:So? Do they all describe meeting the exact same god, with the exact same message, so that we can tell for sure that they're meeting the one true god? Or are their experiences heavily dependent on what they believe and what their culture describes as god and heaven? Because if it's the latter... oops.
Wrong again Ton.
Suppose you are God.
Different blokes pop up as they die whether it is a permanent death or an NDE.
Many of these blokes are not ready for Nirvana or paradise or Samadhi so you can't really
show your real face.
You only show what the blokes grow up with or at the moment believe.
Why God would force someone who is not 100% ready for Samadhi to make them change their mind?
That is why different NDEs see God in a different way which is most suitable to their believe.
Little Rik Wrote:If the matter is more important than the consciousness then your computer should write a post for you.Quote:With the advances in artificial intelligence, that day is probably nearer than we think. And let's face it, if a computer was writing YOUR posts, they might make sense.
Your are guessing Ton.
After a million or so year that man is man (man&women) so far the human mind has always start the action first.
That the future will change all this is like hoping that a fart will be worth something.
Little Rik Wrote:No need to think Ton.
Isn't that beautiful?Quote:That does seem to be your philosophy, yes.
I have been trying to get some philosophical though out of you guys for the last few years but is like to find some gold up in the clouds.
Little Rik Wrote:The best part is that no matter where you are or who you are or what culture you live in......... but as far as you don't use your mind nothing will happen.
The computer will not be able to write something for you.Quote:Like I said, give it time. I can only imagine the fits that A.I. will cause you, as you try to determine if A.I. means that a computer has a conscious mind or soul. One more barrier knocked down by science, this time for laughs.
I give all the time Ton.
In the meantime i use my precious time to build up the inner self.
Little Rik Wrote:So you should realize that is not abstract?Quote:Yep. It's not. That word doesn't really make sense when applied to a state like consciousness. What is so abstract about an on/off switch?
You know what Ton?
You should become a magician and show the people how smart you are.
After all nobody so far has ever been able to touch, smell or seen the consciousness.
I am sure you would become very famous.
Eh, don't forget about little Rik eh.
I gave you the tip after all.
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