Quick Poll - Do you believe in God?

[Little Rik]

You are absolutely hilarious Ton.

Deliberately so, which is the difference between us.

The difference is that i may be hilarious because i believe in God without the need to go through an NDE
while i believe that you will believe only after your body die or go through an NDE. 

With the capitalist system on the brink of total collapse you reckon that we are progressing?

So you pull some random thought out of thin air and decide that it means that we aren't progressing technologically and scientifically?

Actually rather than be thin air i would call it thin bread.
Africa, the middle east and part of Asia is on the move towards Europe in order to find a piece of bread.
Latin America towards north America.
If they are lucky to get a job they may end up working 12 hours a day picking up tomatoes for few dollar a day.
Gee this is progress Ton.
And what about the N0 1 killer malaria still out of control?
And what about the queues outside the charity soup kitchens in the western countries that get longer and longer?
And what about our kids unable to find work?
Oh, yeah we progress technologically but in the meantime our kids will have to rely on their old parents pension to survive.
Yeah Ton, i hear all great news. 

But let us stick to your researchers.
Oh, they date back a century ago!
Well, well Ton, Shiva date back not hundreds but few thousand years and his system is still valid these days.

Yes, over the past few centuries we have progressed in leaps and bounds.  This progression accelerated considerably when we developed the scientific method and started to abandon the "make stuff up" method that was responsible for gods and spirits and souls.  I wouldn't say that the "make stuff up" method is still valid these days.  It does still get used, as we see examples of in this forum all the time.  But it is a method that halts progress, and does so deliberately.  The fact that we continue to learn and progress shows that the suggestion that we knew everything worth knowing a few thousand years ago is wrong.

As for who will have the last laugh?  You're a bit late to that party, Rik.  We don't have to wait to find out who is right or wrong.  Your gods left town once we started asking the tough questions, and they haven't returned.  You can wait around if you want, but the rest of us have stuff to do, and I'm not going to waste time waiting for your imaginary friends to knock on the door.  But you go right on keeping a vigil, buddy.  I guess the world needs lampposts, after all.

You never finish to amaze me Ton.
Didn't i explained you the policy of one step forward and one step backwards?
Where do you think you can get to?
Are you such an insane bloke to believe that in this way there is any kind of progress?