<![CDATA[Atheist Forums - All Forums]]> http://atheistforums.org/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:25:23 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[The Onion: Christian Charity Helps To Feed Non-Gay Hungry]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-551.html Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:14:44 +0000 leo-rcc http://atheistforums.org/thread-551.html

The Onion is one of the best fake news channels out there. They do satire very well and get their message across.



Another doosie.



]]>

The Onion is one of the best fake news channels out there. They do satire very well and get their message across.



Another doosie.



]]> <![CDATA[Jeff Dunham - Achmed the Dead Terrorist]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-549.html Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:12:52 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-549.html ]]> ]]> <![CDATA[escaping the Mormons]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-548.html Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:19:31 +0000 IamAwake http://atheistforums.org/thread-548.html
I was the youngest of 5 and my parents were not sympathetic to or even open to discussion of my intense hatred of every aspect of "The Church". My father was and still is a narcissistic controlling jerk who used the structure of this religion to his special advantage so he could call upon it as justification for whatever he felt like making us do or not do. I was depressed all of my life from the age of a small child and religion compounded all of my worries and I felt horrible about myself and guilty about RIDICULOUS things and was always thinking about it. I felt that it was unjust to be confined in the ways we all were, and being a quiet child, I just simmered in this isolated world where no one in my environment questioned anything and treated me like a product. I say this because my parents seriously expected that no matter what my complaints were, if they had me do X Y and Z day in and day out, I would pop out at the end a pure and beautiful Mormon woman, so I was ultimately ignored as a person. I felt at all times like I was so far off from what the world wanted of me, and this was hard to deal with as a child. They even had me seeing a Mormon psychiatrist at 13. They kept taking me to different ones, each offering pharmeceuticals which I refused until I was suicidal some years later. I was so isolated and bombarded with a hideously flawed ideology for years.

I was especially outraged at an early age by the distinction between males and females, which I would say was the first sign I showed of not believing what was being fed to me. The males believe they get special powers of the priesthood and are told things women cannot know, as well as many other lifestyle differences such as the boyscouts programs vs the women's Relief Society where you are taught how to serve men and families, basically. It was a feminist's or intellectual's nightmare. and I mean it when I say nightmare. All reason and questions rolling off of the clean-looking blank-eyed sickly sweet members. it was like being in the Twilight Zone. only it doesn't end in thirty minutes. I felt the whole world must be that way. I was effectively trapped and the world I knew was intentionally molded by other people. I could only know it felt wrong and was at the least frustrating.

At 16, I was very worried about the afterlife and sin. I knew I didn't believe the mormon religion, and made appointments to see some other religious leaders in town, without letting my parents know because they'd never even let me set foot in another church or learn about any other religion. I had a friend drive me to meet them. That day I was shaken to the core to learn that for instance not everyone believed that God and Jesus and holy spirit are different beings, that we existed before being sent into out bodies, etc. It took me about a year to think through all of the questions this debasing led to. All of my assumptions about life and the universe fell apart that day, and I'll never forget the feeling. It was urgent fear and confusion and anger at all the people who had lied to me and kept me from common knowlege. That isn't likely to happen to a person more than once in their life.

The very day I turned 17 I moved out (that's when it's legal in Texas) and lived in my car more than a year. The freedom from a life of religion felt so wonderful and I didn't speak to my family for a long time. I still can't forgive them for making the first 17 years of my life so .... bad. If anyone has experienced the same thing, I'd like to hear about it. Of course I know other Mormons who "fell away" but they usually go back or have an alternate superstition they take up. I would be equally interested in hearing about people who were raised in any religion against their will or just to their detriment. I consider it abuse.

I am not an atheist just because I hate Mormons and I want to get as far away from them as I can, though that is true. I wanted badly to find another religion that was real. Of course, I couldn't. Seeing the example of how my father used religion to control us in his maniacal way made me all too aware of the danger of others who are just as hungry to do the same and also those who have done so in the past. I have identified as a humanist, but atheist applies too. I am an atheist because I'd like to see people being good to each other and not making our lives any more difficult than they have to be, and religion has gotten in the way and stopped us from being rational about how to accomplish that, all while parading around in a self-congratulatory way claiming it is the only way to get there. The worst is that they are meanwhile claiming people's minds and lives which is unforgivable since that is all we have.]]>
I was the youngest of 5 and my parents were not sympathetic to or even open to discussion of my intense hatred of every aspect of "The Church". My father was and still is a narcissistic controlling jerk who used the structure of this religion to his special advantage so he could call upon it as justification for whatever he felt like making us do or not do. I was depressed all of my life from the age of a small child and religion compounded all of my worries and I felt horrible about myself and guilty about RIDICULOUS things and was always thinking about it. I felt that it was unjust to be confined in the ways we all were, and being a quiet child, I just simmered in this isolated world where no one in my environment questioned anything and treated me like a product. I say this because my parents seriously expected that no matter what my complaints were, if they had me do X Y and Z day in and day out, I would pop out at the end a pure and beautiful Mormon woman, so I was ultimately ignored as a person. I felt at all times like I was so far off from what the world wanted of me, and this was hard to deal with as a child. They even had me seeing a Mormon psychiatrist at 13. They kept taking me to different ones, each offering pharmeceuticals which I refused until I was suicidal some years later. I was so isolated and bombarded with a hideously flawed ideology for years.

I was especially outraged at an early age by the distinction between males and females, which I would say was the first sign I showed of not believing what was being fed to me. The males believe they get special powers of the priesthood and are told things women cannot know, as well as many other lifestyle differences such as the boyscouts programs vs the women's Relief Society where you are taught how to serve men and families, basically. It was a feminist's or intellectual's nightmare. and I mean it when I say nightmare. All reason and questions rolling off of the clean-looking blank-eyed sickly sweet members. it was like being in the Twilight Zone. only it doesn't end in thirty minutes. I felt the whole world must be that way. I was effectively trapped and the world I knew was intentionally molded by other people. I could only know it felt wrong and was at the least frustrating.

At 16, I was very worried about the afterlife and sin. I knew I didn't believe the mormon religion, and made appointments to see some other religious leaders in town, without letting my parents know because they'd never even let me set foot in another church or learn about any other religion. I had a friend drive me to meet them. That day I was shaken to the core to learn that for instance not everyone believed that God and Jesus and holy spirit are different beings, that we existed before being sent into out bodies, etc. It took me about a year to think through all of the questions this debasing led to. All of my assumptions about life and the universe fell apart that day, and I'll never forget the feeling. It was urgent fear and confusion and anger at all the people who had lied to me and kept me from common knowlege. That isn't likely to happen to a person more than once in their life.

The very day I turned 17 I moved out (that's when it's legal in Texas) and lived in my car more than a year. The freedom from a life of religion felt so wonderful and I didn't speak to my family for a long time. I still can't forgive them for making the first 17 years of my life so .... bad. If anyone has experienced the same thing, I'd like to hear about it. Of course I know other Mormons who "fell away" but they usually go back or have an alternate superstition they take up. I would be equally interested in hearing about people who were raised in any religion against their will or just to their detriment. I consider it abuse.

I am not an atheist just because I hate Mormons and I want to get as far away from them as I can, though that is true. I wanted badly to find another religion that was real. Of course, I couldn't. Seeing the example of how my father used religion to control us in his maniacal way made me all too aware of the danger of others who are just as hungry to do the same and also those who have done so in the past. I have identified as a humanist, but atheist applies too. I am an atheist because I'd like to see people being good to each other and not making our lives any more difficult than they have to be, and religion has gotten in the way and stopped us from being rational about how to accomplish that, all while parading around in a self-congratulatory way claiming it is the only way to get there. The worst is that they are meanwhile claiming people's minds and lives which is unforgivable since that is all we have.]]> <![CDATA[Golf, anyone playing that "sport"?]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-547.html Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:44:53 +0000 Giff http://atheistforums.org/thread-547.html
Anyway don´t be shy to say that like gold, even tough I will probably mock you a little bit.

I have worked on a golfclub, strange you may think, but it was quite fun. To work, not golf. Which I would never do.]]>
Anyway don´t be shy to say that like gold, even tough I will probably mock you a little bit.

I have worked on a golfclub, strange you may think, but it was quite fun. To work, not golf. Which I would never do.]]> <![CDATA[Our 'civilisation' is going to fall apart unless people wake up soon.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-546.html Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:15:18 +0000 Cludo http://atheistforums.org/thread-546.html

21st Century Human Rights.

The right to imagine individual actions have no consequence for any other person, animal environment….
The right to insist on being narrow minded & self-indulgent…. Whilst labelling others as narrow minded, self indulgent, opinionated, archaic …etc
The right to stereotype rather than listen.
The right to lack humility in every situation.
The right to indulge in any small perversion of thought and nurture it to fruition.
The right not to tolerate anyone who disagrees with your thoughts and decisions, on any grounds, including the possibility that they may be damaging to yourself, others, environment etc.
The right to put your feelings above and before everything else.
The right to abort another human life if it could mean taking any responsibility for your actions.
The right to be indiscriminately tolerant of all opinions and actions that don’t affect you personally.
The right to feel badly done to after bringing something upon yourself.
The right to at least tolerate if not condone everything except common sense, reason, logic, the laws of nature, religions lacking alternative/ethnic flair (those that include moral guidelines), morals….“restrictions on personal freedom”.
The right to ignore the fact that most laws, guidelines, moral codes, values…etc are based on the findings of billions of humans over thousands of years and so deserve some respect.
The right to ignore others, discover snippets of common sense in the most round-about and damaging way possible, miss the point completely, write a self congratulatory and self indulgent book on the subject, assume that you are more intelligent than anyone who recognised sense when they saw/heard it in the first place.
ETC
Apologies for any bad grammar.]]>

21st Century Human Rights.

The right to imagine individual actions have no consequence for any other person, animal environment….
The right to insist on being narrow minded & self-indulgent…. Whilst labelling others as narrow minded, self indulgent, opinionated, archaic …etc
The right to stereotype rather than listen.
The right to lack humility in every situation.
The right to indulge in any small perversion of thought and nurture it to fruition.
The right not to tolerate anyone who disagrees with your thoughts and decisions, on any grounds, including the possibility that they may be damaging to yourself, others, environment etc.
The right to put your feelings above and before everything else.
The right to abort another human life if it could mean taking any responsibility for your actions.
The right to be indiscriminately tolerant of all opinions and actions that don’t affect you personally.
The right to feel badly done to after bringing something upon yourself.
The right to at least tolerate if not condone everything except common sense, reason, logic, the laws of nature, religions lacking alternative/ethnic flair (those that include moral guidelines), morals….“restrictions on personal freedom”.
The right to ignore the fact that most laws, guidelines, moral codes, values…etc are based on the findings of billions of humans over thousands of years and so deserve some respect.
The right to ignore others, discover snippets of common sense in the most round-about and damaging way possible, miss the point completely, write a self congratulatory and self indulgent book on the subject, assume that you are more intelligent than anyone who recognised sense when they saw/heard it in the first place.
ETC
Apologies for any bad grammar.]]> <![CDATA[Smileys]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-545.html Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:07:12 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-545.html
I've added some new smileys that you may wish to use (if you're that way inclined)

They are..
  • angel
  • wink
  • cool
  • bow
  • confused
  • argue
  • roflol
  • devil
  • shock
  • worship
  • tiger
  • thinking

And you use them like this..

Code:
{ wink }

Which will produce this..



Please notice the space either side of the word for the smiley.

I shall be adding more soon and detailing them here.

I thank you. ]]>
I've added some new smileys that you may wish to use (if you're that way inclined)

They are..
  • angel
  • wink
  • cool
  • bow
  • confused
  • argue
  • roflol
  • devil
  • shock
  • worship
  • tiger
  • thinking

And you use them like this..

Code:
{ wink }

Which will produce this..



Please notice the space either side of the word for the smiley.

I shall be adding more soon and detailing them here.

I thank you. ]]> <![CDATA[The problem with prayer]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-544.html Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:21:39 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-544.html
This would be fine if..

  1. God existed.
  2. He wasn't omniscient.
  3. And he was powerful enough to grant your wish.


However, every Christian I have tackled about this tells me that God is all powerful (omnipotent) and all seeing (omniscient). If that is the case then God already knows the outcome of every possible event that has, will or can ever take place.

What then is the point of prayer because what ever happens was going to happen anyway and not even God could change that because of the obvious paradox of being omnipotent and omniscient at the same time.]]>
This would be fine if..

  1. God existed.
  2. He wasn't omniscient.
  3. And he was powerful enough to grant your wish.


However, every Christian I have tackled about this tells me that God is all powerful (omnipotent) and all seeing (omniscient). If that is the case then God already knows the outcome of every possible event that has, will or can ever take place.

What then is the point of prayer because what ever happens was going to happen anyway and not even God could change that because of the obvious paradox of being omnipotent and omniscient at the same time.]]> <![CDATA[Your first single.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-543.html Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:26:57 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-543.html <![CDATA[Youtube?]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-542.html Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:55:46 +0000 Demonaura http://atheistforums.org/thread-542.html
I am rather interested in religious topics or similar topics like equal rights for gays but, I tend to speak randomly. So if anyone has any cool ideas for me I'd love to hear em! So far I have been replying to other posters, partly in an attempt to make friends on Youtube and partly to expand my subscribers so more people see my videos. Also I never did get around to my whole Santa/Critical thinking thing, the season passed and it seemed to have lost a bit of effect at the same time.

I think this is an appropriate forum for my little request for help but, tbh it's like 6 AM and I can't think quite as well as I'd like.

http://ca.youtube.com/user/DemonAuraProductions

(Interested in anyone lse here who has videos on Youtube as well)]]>
I am rather interested in religious topics or similar topics like equal rights for gays but, I tend to speak randomly. So if anyone has any cool ideas for me I'd love to hear em! So far I have been replying to other posters, partly in an attempt to make friends on Youtube and partly to expand my subscribers so more people see my videos. Also I never did get around to my whole Santa/Critical thinking thing, the season passed and it seemed to have lost a bit of effect at the same time.

I think this is an appropriate forum for my little request for help but, tbh it's like 6 AM and I can't think quite as well as I'd like.

http://ca.youtube.com/user/DemonAuraProductions

(Interested in anyone lse here who has videos on Youtube as well)]]> <![CDATA[Atheist Forums Little Rule Book.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-541.html Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:46:04 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-541.html Atheist Forums reserve the right to enforce the following rules as we see fit. This is so that people cannot use the literal meaning of the rules to defeat the spirit of the rules.

The purpose of this forum.

This forum was created for the purpose of providing friendly discussion and debate between atheists and other like minded individuals in an environment of integrity and rational discourse. Theists are more than welcome to join and enter into discussion but please bare in mind the nature of this community and take a few moment to read 'Important Information for Theists' before contributing.

Rules for posting.
The following rules will be enforced to maintain a civilised and congenial atmosphere within the forums.

  1. No Spamming - This not only refers to blatant attempts to advertise but to any post that is not an attempt at discussion. We consider spam to be the following.
    • multiple postings of the same topic
    • threads which are posted to advertise products/links unrelated to this forum
    • responses to existing topics which are completely unrelated to the subject
    • hit and run postings of a trollish, offensive, or otherwise inappropriate nature*

      *Posts in this category will remain for 24 hours to give the poster a chance to show that they intend to discuss it's content. If, after this time no further post has been made it shall be deleted and the poster may receive a warning.
    .
  2. No Advertising - Any advertisements in posts will be removed immediately. If you want to promote a product or service then please contact one of the administrators or moderators by personal message first.
    .
  3. No Flaming - Any insulting or offensive content will be deleted immediately, especially if they are aimed toward another member. Whilst is understood that at times tempers can flare and language can get a little Anglo-Saxon you are reminded to vent your spleen towards the content of the post itself and not to attack the poster personally. If you feel that a post has contravened a rule then please use the [Image: report.bmp] button.
    .
  4. No Pornography - Any pornographic content will be deleted immediately. This includes pictures, videos and links.
    .
  5. Each member is allowed one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not allowed.
    .
  6. Trying to disrupt or disable forum activity, through any means possible, is strictly forbidden and deeply frowned upon. This activity will very quickly attract the attention of the forum staff and will almost certainly result in a warning and possibly a ban.
    .
  7. Access to the Admin Control Panel is strictly for Staff Members only. Attempting to gain access is strictly forbidden.
    .
  8. The upload of illegal or dangerous material to the site is strictly forbidden.


General rules and guidelines.
The following are more generalised rules intended for the smooth running of the forum and by definition are not so strictly enforced.

  1. Quoting large posts. Creating long posts is absolutely fine (as long as they are your own work of course) but when you are replying to them try to avoid the temptation to quote the whole thing.

    Instead simply quote a small section as otherwise it tends to make the thread quite difficult to read.

    An alternative might be to wrap up large sections using the hide tag, such as..

    Code:
    [hide]Large section of text[/hide]
    .
  2. Pasting from other web sites. This is a common forum problem and can be quite annoying for other members. By all means copy and paste the odd piece of text or small paragraph if it adds weight to your post but for anything larger, please provide a link to the material instead by using the url tag.

    Code:
    [url]http://www.someplace.com/somesite.html[/url]  
    [url=http://www.someplace.com/somesite.html]Click Here[/url]
    .
  3. Do not plagiarize. When quoting from a source other than yourself give credit where credit is due. Use citations, links, names, etc. when possible.

    Academic integrity is important to a lot of the members here and it's only fair to give credit where it is due. Adding your opinion alongside cited text will not only improve the quality of your post but is encouraged.
    .
  4. Right to privacy. Although we cannot be responsible for private information you choose to reveal in your posts. Members, moderators, and administrators are not allowed to make public the personal information of other member either on this forum or elsewhere. Anyone caught posting another person's private information without proper consent will be banned immediately.


The standard legal stuff.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Atheist Forums” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions.

You agree that “Atheist Forums” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent “Atheist Forums” shall not be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

And finally..
These rules and guidelines are still a work in progress, so, any suggestions please feel free to contribute in the Feedback and Suggestions Forum

]]> Atheist Forums reserve the right to enforce the following rules as we see fit. This is so that people cannot use the literal meaning of the rules to defeat the spirit of the rules.

The purpose of this forum.

This forum was created for the purpose of providing friendly discussion and debate between atheists and other like minded individuals in an environment of integrity and rational discourse. Theists are more than welcome to join and enter into discussion but please bare in mind the nature of this community and take a few moment to read 'Important Information for Theists' before contributing.

Rules for posting.
The following rules will be enforced to maintain a civilised and congenial atmosphere within the forums.

  1. No Spamming - This not only refers to blatant attempts to advertise but to any post that is not an attempt at discussion. We consider spam to be the following.
    • multiple postings of the same topic
    • threads which are posted to advertise products/links unrelated to this forum
    • responses to existing topics which are completely unrelated to the subject
    • hit and run postings of a trollish, offensive, or otherwise inappropriate nature*

      *Posts in this category will remain for 24 hours to give the poster a chance to show that they intend to discuss it's content. If, after this time no further post has been made it shall be deleted and the poster may receive a warning.
    .
  2. No Advertising - Any advertisements in posts will be removed immediately. If you want to promote a product or service then please contact one of the administrators or moderators by personal message first.
    .
  3. No Flaming - Any insulting or offensive content will be deleted immediately, especially if they are aimed toward another member. Whilst is understood that at times tempers can flare and language can get a little Anglo-Saxon you are reminded to vent your spleen towards the content of the post itself and not to attack the poster personally. If you feel that a post has contravened a rule then please use the [Image: report.bmp] button.
    .
  4. No Pornography - Any pornographic content will be deleted immediately. This includes pictures, videos and links.
    .
  5. Each member is allowed one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not allowed.
    .
  6. Trying to disrupt or disable forum activity, through any means possible, is strictly forbidden and deeply frowned upon. This activity will very quickly attract the attention of the forum staff and will almost certainly result in a warning and possibly a ban.
    .
  7. Access to the Admin Control Panel is strictly for Staff Members only. Attempting to gain access is strictly forbidden.
    .
  8. The upload of illegal or dangerous material to the site is strictly forbidden.


General rules and guidelines.
The following are more generalised rules intended for the smooth running of the forum and by definition are not so strictly enforced.

  1. Quoting large posts. Creating long posts is absolutely fine (as long as they are your own work of course) but when you are replying to them try to avoid the temptation to quote the whole thing.

    Instead simply quote a small section as otherwise it tends to make the thread quite difficult to read.

    An alternative might be to wrap up large sections using the hide tag, such as..

    Code:
    [hide]Large section of text[/hide]
    .
  2. Pasting from other web sites. This is a common forum problem and can be quite annoying for other members. By all means copy and paste the odd piece of text or small paragraph if it adds weight to your post but for anything larger, please provide a link to the material instead by using the url tag.

    Code:
    [url]http://www.someplace.com/somesite.html[/url]  
    [url=http://www.someplace.com/somesite.html]Click Here[/url]
    .
  3. Do not plagiarize. When quoting from a source other than yourself give credit where credit is due. Use citations, links, names, etc. when possible.

    Academic integrity is important to a lot of the members here and it's only fair to give credit where it is due. Adding your opinion alongside cited text will not only improve the quality of your post but is encouraged.
    .
  4. Right to privacy. Although we cannot be responsible for private information you choose to reveal in your posts. Members, moderators, and administrators are not allowed to make public the personal information of other member either on this forum or elsewhere. Anyone caught posting another person's private information without proper consent will be banned immediately.


The standard legal stuff.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Atheist Forums” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions.

You agree that “Atheist Forums” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent “Atheist Forums” shall not be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

And finally..
These rules and guidelines are still a work in progress, so, any suggestions please feel free to contribute in the Feedback and Suggestions Forum

]]> <![CDATA[most vomit-inducing god testimonies.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-540.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:11:10 +0000 bozo http://atheistforums.org/thread-540.html
Can you all quote others, equally nauseating?]]>
Can you all quote others, equally nauseating?]]> <![CDATA[Quoting long posts.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-539.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:48:07 +0000 Darwinian http://atheistforums.org/thread-539.html
Perhaps simply quote a small section as otherwise it tends to make the thread quite difficult to read.

An alternative might be to wrap up large sections using the hide tag.

Code:
[hide]Large section of text[/hide]

Many thanks Cool]]>
Perhaps simply quote a small section as otherwise it tends to make the thread quite difficult to read.

An alternative might be to wrap up large sections using the hide tag.

Code:
[hide]Large section of text[/hide]

Many thanks Cool]]> <![CDATA[Hate Crime Legislation]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-537.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:50:37 +0000 Eilonnwy http://atheistforums.org/thread-537.html hate crime legislation. Personally I'm kind of undecided so I'm curious to see the argument.

I recognize that when a hate crime happens it can spur other hate crimes whether in opposition or support for the original crime, and that it does in some way represent a dehumanization of sorts.

But at the same time, Hate Crimes are essentially a way of tacking on a thought crime to an established crime. If someone is say stabbed (with intent to murder but the person survived) whether for money or for being black, if found guilty according to the court of law that person will suffer the appropriate punishment for their action. Hate crimes essentially tack on thought crime, where the motivation was a thought of prejudice and because you had that thought, it's more wrong and you get a more severe punishment. Too me, it doesn't necessarily seem right. Legislating thoughts is I think a bad place to ever go. It's too close to the idea of sin, which I think most of here agree sin is absurd.

We protect a person's right to hate, just not to act on those hates. So if a person acts on that hate, why should we then take into consideration that person's hate as a reason for more severe punishment when before that hate is acted on it's okay?

This issue is important to me because I support LGBT rights, and agree with their agenda almost 100%, but hate crimes is where I'm not sure I agree and I would like some input. I actually used to support their stance on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard">Matthew Shepard Act</a> but I've heard some arguments that give me pause. I realize that if I support the Matthew Shepard Act I would essentially support all hate crime legislation, and I'm not sure that I do. :/]]> hate crime legislation. Personally I'm kind of undecided so I'm curious to see the argument.

I recognize that when a hate crime happens it can spur other hate crimes whether in opposition or support for the original crime, and that it does in some way represent a dehumanization of sorts.

But at the same time, Hate Crimes are essentially a way of tacking on a thought crime to an established crime. If someone is say stabbed (with intent to murder but the person survived) whether for money or for being black, if found guilty according to the court of law that person will suffer the appropriate punishment for their action. Hate crimes essentially tack on thought crime, where the motivation was a thought of prejudice and because you had that thought, it's more wrong and you get a more severe punishment. Too me, it doesn't necessarily seem right. Legislating thoughts is I think a bad place to ever go. It's too close to the idea of sin, which I think most of here agree sin is absurd.

We protect a person's right to hate, just not to act on those hates. So if a person acts on that hate, why should we then take into consideration that person's hate as a reason for more severe punishment when before that hate is acted on it's okay?

This issue is important to me because I support LGBT rights, and agree with their agenda almost 100%, but hate crimes is where I'm not sure I agree and I would like some input. I actually used to support their stance on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard">Matthew Shepard Act</a> but I've heard some arguments that give me pause. I realize that if I support the Matthew Shepard Act I would essentially support all hate crime legislation, and I'm not sure that I do. :/]]> <![CDATA[who believes on God]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-536.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:19:17 +0000 josef rosenkranz http://atheistforums.org/thread-536.html The list has various degrees of reliabilty for every country, depending on the number of participants, as listed under the column of "total".
It is intersting to see the impressive numbers of non believers all over the world.
In European Central and Western countries the relation between nonbelievers to believers amounts up to about 2/1,whereas in the United States it is only about 1/1.
Lol for Vatican where the relation is also 1/1!
Of course non believers don't mean atheists but in general no practicant religious people or what we call sometime secular minded people.
I don't know about such previous statstics but I'm quite confident that the number of non believers is increasing with the time especially in countries where the living stanard is improving.

Total Yes No
World status 142850 47% 53%
Europe 91023 46% 54%
Middle East 816 64% 36%
Asia 3137 50% 50%
Caribbean 500 66% 34%
Africa 472 78% 22%
South America 10743 53% 47%
Oceania 1788 30% 70%
North America 30598 44% 56%
Central America 3773 64% 36%





Country Total Yes No
Andorra 43 51% 49%
United Arab Emirates 37 86% 14%
Afghanistan 7 100% 0%
Antigua & Barbuda 7 43% 57%
Albania 4 100% 0%
Armenia 3 67% 33%
Netherlands Antilles 12 58% 42%
Angola 2 50% 50%
Argentina 2168 51% 49%
Austria 337 48% 52%
Australia 1285 28% 72%
Aruba 16 63% 37%
Azerbaijan 28 71% 29%
Bosnia-Herzegovina 68 76% 24%
Barbados 10 70% 30%
Bangladesh 20 45% 55%
Belgium 779 27% 73%
Bulgaria 237 76% 24%
Bahrain 11 64% 36%
Bermuda 1 100% 0%
Brunei Darussalem 4 100% 0%
Bolivia 59 59% 41%
Brazil 5321 52% 48%
Bahamas 7 57% 43%
Botswana 2 50% 50%
Belarus 232 58% 42%
Belize 2 50% 50%
Canada 4311 31% 69%
Switzerland 2151 48% 52%
Cote d'Ivoire 3 33% 67%
Chile 1589 51% 49%
China 152 47% 53%
Colombia 474 63% 37%
Costa Rica 148 53% 47%
Cuba 12 42% 58%
Cape Verde 2 100% 0%
Cyprus 28 68% 32%
Czech Republic 147 43% 57%
Germany 6425 37% 63%
Denmark 328 31% 69%
Dominican Republic 254 71% 29%
Algeria 48 81% 19%
Ecuador 96 60% 40%
Estonia 152 34% 66%
Egypt 114 86% 14%
Spain 23012 35% 65%
Ethiopia 7 86% 14%
Finland 2068 23% 77%
Fiji 7 57% 43%
Faroe Islands 2 50% 50%
France 1208 33% 67%
United Kingdom 4790 32% 68%
Grenada 2 50% 50%
Georgia 17 65% 35%
Ghana 2 100% 0%
Gibraltar 2 50% 50%
Greece 224 61% 39%
Guatemala 70 81% 19%
Guam 4 100% 0%
Guyana 2 100% 0%
Hong Kong 74 50% 50%
Honduras 25 80% 20%
Croatia 244 37% 63%
Hungary 6515 53% 47%
Indonesia 92 90% 10%
Ireland 390 37% 63%
India 376 69% 31%
Iraq 3 100% 0%
Iran 203 78% 22%
Israel 679 56% 44%
Iceland 67 48% 52%
Italy 6654 51% 49%
Jamaica 10 50% 50%
Jordan 41 49% 51%
Japan 1336 31% 69%
Kenya 8 100% 0%
Kyrgyzstan 6 67% 33%
St. Kitts and Nevis 1 100% 0%
Korea, South 82 48% 52%
Kuwait 42 69% 31%
Cayman Islands 2 0% 100%
Kazakhstan 49 57% 43%





Country Total Yes No
Laos 3 33% 67%
Lebanon 16 75% 25%
Saint Lucia 1 0% 100%
Liechtenstein 15 60% 40%
Sri Lanka 9 44% 56%
Lithuania 542 53% 47%
Luxembourg 40 33% 67%
Latvia 706 53% 47%
Libya 6 83% 17%
Morocco 93 86% 14%
Monaco 4 100% 0%
Moldova 106 54% 46%
Montenegro 2 50% 50%
Makedonia 27 59% 41%
Mali 1 0% 100%
Mongolia 5 100% 0%
Macau 4 50% 50%
Malta 32 84% 16%
Mauritius 9 89% 11%
Maldives 7 43% 57%
Mexico 3027 62% 38%
Malaysia 255 71% 29%
Mozambique 5 60% 40%
Namibia 1 0% 100%
Nigeria 12 100% 0%
Nicaragua 77 68% 32%
Netherlands 2398 47% 53%
Norway 493 29% 71%
Nepal 6 100% 0%
Nauru 1 100% 0%
New Zealand 490 36% 64%
Oman 3 67% 33%
Panama 302 87% 13%
Peru 401 63% 37%
Philippines 176 71% 29%
Pakistan 59 92% 8%
Poland 8248 55% 45%
Puerto Rico 154 67% 33%
Portugal 750 44% 56%
Paraguay 59 42% 58%
Qatar 8 63% 37%
Reunion (FR) 1 100% 0%
Romania 1312 68% 32%
Serbia 158 44% 56%
Russian Federation 4206 45% 55%
Rwanda 2 50% 50%
Saudi Arabia 63 73% 27%
Seychelles 1 100% 0%
Sudan 6 100% 0%
Sweden 790 32% 68%
Singapore 122 56% 44%
Slovenia 135 37% 63%
Slovakia 243 53% 47%
Senegal 4 75% 25%
Suriname 1 100% 0%
El Salvador 122 41% 59%
Syria 23 35% 65%
Swaziland 2 100% 0%
Togo 1 0% 100%
Thailand 79 41% 59%
Tajikistan 1 0% 100%
Turkmenistan 1 0% 100%
Tunisia 30 73% 27%
Turkey 10129 73% 27%
Trinidad & Tobago 11 36% 64%
Taiwan 69 61% 39%
Tanzania 3 100% 0%
Ukraine 915 50% 50%
Uganda 1 100% 0%
United States 26286 47% 53%
Uruguay 89 33% 67%
Uzbekistan 19 26% 74%
Vatican City State 2 50% 50%
St. Vincent & Grenadines 1 100% 0%
Venezuela 484 72% 28%
Vietnam 80 86% 14%
Samoa 1 0% 100%
Yemen 4 75% 25%
South Africa 103 57% 43%
Zambia 1 100% 0%
Zimbabwe 2 100% 0%
Interland 3659 48% 52%]]> The list has various degrees of reliabilty for every country, depending on the number of participants, as listed under the column of "total".
It is intersting to see the impressive numbers of non believers all over the world.
In European Central and Western countries the relation between nonbelievers to believers amounts up to about 2/1,whereas in the United States it is only about 1/1.
Lol for Vatican where the relation is also 1/1!
Of course non believers don't mean atheists but in general no practicant religious people or what we call sometime secular minded people.
I don't know about such previous statstics but I'm quite confident that the number of non believers is increasing with the time especially in countries where the living stanard is improving.

Total Yes No
World status 142850 47% 53%
Europe 91023 46% 54%
Middle East 816 64% 36%
Asia 3137 50% 50%
Caribbean 500 66% 34%
Africa 472 78% 22%
South America 10743 53% 47%
Oceania 1788 30% 70%
North America 30598 44% 56%
Central America 3773 64% 36%





Country Total Yes No
Andorra 43 51% 49%
United Arab Emirates 37 86% 14%
Afghanistan 7 100% 0%
Antigua & Barbuda 7 43% 57%
Albania 4 100% 0%
Armenia 3 67% 33%
Netherlands Antilles 12 58% 42%
Angola 2 50% 50%
Argentina 2168 51% 49%
Austria 337 48% 52%
Australia 1285 28% 72%
Aruba 16 63% 37%
Azerbaijan 28 71% 29%
Bosnia-Herzegovina 68 76% 24%
Barbados 10 70% 30%
Bangladesh 20 45% 55%
Belgium 779 27% 73%
Bulgaria 237 76% 24%
Bahrain 11 64% 36%
Bermuda 1 100% 0%
Brunei Darussalem 4 100% 0%
Bolivia 59 59% 41%
Brazil 5321 52% 48%
Bahamas 7 57% 43%
Botswana 2 50% 50%
Belarus 232 58% 42%
Belize 2 50% 50%
Canada 4311 31% 69%
Switzerland 2151 48% 52%
Cote d'Ivoire 3 33% 67%
Chile 1589 51% 49%
China 152 47% 53%
Colombia 474 63% 37%
Costa Rica 148 53% 47%
Cuba 12 42% 58%
Cape Verde 2 100% 0%
Cyprus 28 68% 32%
Czech Republic 147 43% 57%
Germany 6425 37% 63%
Denmark 328 31% 69%
Dominican Republic 254 71% 29%
Algeria 48 81% 19%
Ecuador 96 60% 40%
Estonia 152 34% 66%
Egypt 114 86% 14%
Spain 23012 35% 65%
Ethiopia 7 86% 14%
Finland 2068 23% 77%
Fiji 7 57% 43%
Faroe Islands 2 50% 50%
France 1208 33% 67%
United Kingdom 4790 32% 68%
Grenada 2 50% 50%
Georgia 17 65% 35%
Ghana 2 100% 0%
Gibraltar 2 50% 50%
Greece 224 61% 39%
Guatemala 70 81% 19%
Guam 4 100% 0%
Guyana 2 100% 0%
Hong Kong 74 50% 50%
Honduras 25 80% 20%
Croatia 244 37% 63%
Hungary 6515 53% 47%
Indonesia 92 90% 10%
Ireland 390 37% 63%
India 376 69% 31%
Iraq 3 100% 0%
Iran 203 78% 22%
Israel 679 56% 44%
Iceland 67 48% 52%
Italy 6654 51% 49%
Jamaica 10 50% 50%
Jordan 41 49% 51%
Japan 1336 31% 69%
Kenya 8 100% 0%
Kyrgyzstan 6 67% 33%
St. Kitts and Nevis 1 100% 0%
Korea, South 82 48% 52%
Kuwait 42 69% 31%
Cayman Islands 2 0% 100%
Kazakhstan 49 57% 43%





Country Total Yes No
Laos 3 33% 67%
Lebanon 16 75% 25%
Saint Lucia 1 0% 100%
Liechtenstein 15 60% 40%
Sri Lanka 9 44% 56%
Lithuania 542 53% 47%
Luxembourg 40 33% 67%
Latvia 706 53% 47%
Libya 6 83% 17%
Morocco 93 86% 14%
Monaco 4 100% 0%
Moldova 106 54% 46%
Montenegro 2 50% 50%
Makedonia 27 59% 41%
Mali 1 0% 100%
Mongolia 5 100% 0%
Macau 4 50% 50%
Malta 32 84% 16%
Mauritius 9 89% 11%
Maldives 7 43% 57%
Mexico 3027 62% 38%
Malaysia 255 71% 29%
Mozambique 5 60% 40%
Namibia 1 0% 100%
Nigeria 12 100% 0%
Nicaragua 77 68% 32%
Netherlands 2398 47% 53%
Norway 493 29% 71%
Nepal 6 100% 0%
Nauru 1 100% 0%
New Zealand 490 36% 64%
Oman 3 67% 33%
Panama 302 87% 13%
Peru 401 63% 37%
Philippines 176 71% 29%
Pakistan 59 92% 8%
Poland 8248 55% 45%
Puerto Rico 154 67% 33%
Portugal 750 44% 56%
Paraguay 59 42% 58%
Qatar 8 63% 37%
Reunion (FR) 1 100% 0%
Romania 1312 68% 32%
Serbia 158 44% 56%
Russian Federation 4206 45% 55%
Rwanda 2 50% 50%
Saudi Arabia 63 73% 27%
Seychelles 1 100% 0%
Sudan 6 100% 0%
Sweden 790 32% 68%
Singapore 122 56% 44%
Slovenia 135 37% 63%
Slovakia 243 53% 47%
Senegal 4 75% 25%
Suriname 1 100% 0%
El Salvador 122 41% 59%
Syria 23 35% 65%
Swaziland 2 100% 0%
Togo 1 0% 100%
Thailand 79 41% 59%
Tajikistan 1 0% 100%
Turkmenistan 1 0% 100%
Tunisia 30 73% 27%
Turkey 10129 73% 27%
Trinidad & Tobago 11 36% 64%
Taiwan 69 61% 39%
Tanzania 3 100% 0%
Ukraine 915 50% 50%
Uganda 1 100% 0%
United States 26286 47% 53%
Uruguay 89 33% 67%
Uzbekistan 19 26% 74%
Vatican City State 2 50% 50%
St. Vincent & Grenadines 1 100% 0%
Venezuela 484 72% 28%
Vietnam 80 86% 14%
Samoa 1 0% 100%
Yemen 4 75% 25%
South Africa 103 57% 43%
Zambia 1 100% 0%
Zimbabwe 2 100% 0%
Interland 3659 48% 52%]]> <![CDATA[Project Steve.]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-535.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:41:25 +0000 leo-rcc http://atheistforums.org/thread-535.html

http://ncseweb.org/taking-action/project-steve]]>

http://ncseweb.org/taking-action/project-steve]]> <![CDATA[Allow me to introduce myself :)]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-534.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:43:00 +0000 CaLo http://atheistforums.org/thread-534.html Tongue

I am 17, male, from Canada. I am an atheist, however, the first 14-15 years of my life were lived Roman Catholic. I was baptized, confirmed and have been and currently am going to a Catholic school. I have come to realize that I don't really want to be apart of something I believe is as ridiculous as believing in dancing unicorns in the center of the Earth. Rolleyes
I am very interested in the sciences, specifically astronomy, physics, and cosmology. Next year i am heading to the west coast to study Astronomy at UVic.

That about sums it up, so hello to all, happy new year, etc. etc. and i will see you on the forums Smile]]> Tongue

I am 17, male, from Canada. I am an atheist, however, the first 14-15 years of my life were lived Roman Catholic. I was baptized, confirmed and have been and currently am going to a Catholic school. I have come to realize that I don't really want to be apart of something I believe is as ridiculous as believing in dancing unicorns in the center of the Earth. Rolleyes
I am very interested in the sciences, specifically astronomy, physics, and cosmology. Next year i am heading to the west coast to study Astronomy at UVic.

That about sums it up, so hello to all, happy new year, etc. etc. and i will see you on the forums Smile]]> <![CDATA[Sup]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-533.html Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:44:06 +0000 l.o.s.s http://atheistforums.org/thread-533.html <![CDATA[Douglas Adams at Digital Biota]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-532.html Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:58:54 +0000 lilphil1989 http://atheistforums.org/thread-532.html
http://www.biota.org/podcast/#DNA

It's at the very bottom of the page]]>
http://www.biota.org/podcast/#DNA

It's at the very bottom of the page]]> <![CDATA[Midas Dekkers on Homosexuality]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-531.html Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:12:23 +0000 leo-rcc http://atheistforums.org/thread-531.html
I think it is a nice viewpoint.]]>
I think it is a nice viewpoint.]]> <![CDATA[Welcome Dogtrainer19!]]> http://atheistforums.org/thread-530.html Fri, 02 Jan 2009 09:28:09 +0000 puglover http://atheistforums.org/thread-530.html What a nice member! Tongue
Hope you enjoy your time here dogtrainer19.
I love dogs - esp. pugs!
I have considered being a dog trainer lol Big Grin]]> What a nice member! Tongue
Hope you enjoy your time here dogtrainer19.
I love dogs - esp. pugs!
I have considered being a dog trainer lol Big Grin]]>