What is Justice?

[Perhaps]

I'm currently re-reading the Republic by Plato and I've come across this quite mesmerizing topic of justice. Many people have different opinions on the topic, and most are very passionate about it, so I would like to pose the question here, on these forums, to all who are interested in answering.

What is justice to you? Is there a specific analogy you use when describing it to yourself or others? Are there specific instances in history which have changed your opinion? Is your definition of justice altered by your perception of morality?

I'm eager to hear your responses.

As a side note: I've always been amazed at the humility one can gain from talking to children, and this happened to me, once again, while asking this question to my 13 year old sister. At first she seemed very confused, as I expected she would be, but then she responded with one word - freedom. I asked her what she meant, and she went on to explain that justice is freedom from something. I was still confused so I asked her to dumb it down for me or use an example. She brought up the Casey Anthony trial, and said that Casey Anthony got justice - she was free from being accused of something she didn't do. I then asked her what about the people who believe that she is guilty of the crime she was accused of? My sister responded by saying that they didn't get justice - they were not free from the feeling that Casey Anthony committed the crime and was guilty. Without me asking her another question she said further, justice is a personal thing. Such a simple answer, to what I made to be a complex question...

Her confidence in her answer gave me shutters down my spine. Regardless of whether she is right or wrong, her humility and sincerity struck me. I could see her side of the question, but I was still left with a feeling of 'there has to be more to it' and thus, I posted this thread.

Second Edit: I then asked my father, whom I respect greatly, the same question. His answer was twofold: Justice is the following of established rules. Justice is also the correct consequence given or received for following said rules. He objectified something which my young sister thought to be subjective. I was amazed that this was possible - to take a simple word and form definitions which don't necessarily coincide with one another. I'm still left with the question where these rules come from, and how they are determined to be just - something my father's definition does not capture.

[jason56]

Can you define "justice" to a precise value?

I'm up for the argument, if we can set the rules.

I don't like open-ended debates.

[reverendjeremiah]

jus·tice
   [juhs-tis] Show IPA

noun
1.
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

2.
rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3.
the moral principle determining just conduct.

4.
conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5.
the administering of deserved punishment or reward.


Which one are we talking about?

[Chuck]

Justice - Christians go to hell.

[Perhaps]

(4th January 2012 00:59)reverendjeremiah Wrote:  jus·tice
   [juhs-tis] Show IPA

noun
1.
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

2.
rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3.
the moral principle determining just conduct.

4.
conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5.
the administering of deserved punishment or reward.


Which one are we talking about?

Would it be possible to incorporate all of them into a single demonstrative definition of justice?

The aim of my question was not necessarily, although I do appreciate you posting it, the definition of justice; but rather, what is contained within that definition. For example, how is righteousness defined to you? How does one determine what consequence is deserved? What does it mean to be just or enact justice?

If I was to choose one of the sub-definitions provided for which I wish the discussion on this thread to focus on, I would most likely say number 3; however, 1 and 5 have strong merit as well.

Quote:Can you define "justice" to a precise value?

I'm up for the argument, if we can set the rules.

I don't like open-ended debates.

I would love for the discussion to take the course of thought in whichever direction it chooses. If it becomes one of subjective ideologies, then we can address it as such. But, if there is to be one definition of justice and what it comprises of then so be it. I have no real opinion on the subject, which is why I asked the question.

The limitations of language and linguistic definition can be hard to surpass, but I'd like to determine the morality of justice, if it has morality, the epistemological value of justice, if it has said value, and the ontology of justice.

---

Perhaps a good starting point for the discussion - Is justice necessary for a society to function? Let's try and focus on justice, while I understand that the meaning of function can be a discussion in and of itself. Perhaps this question is flawed, but if anyone else has a better revision or a better question overall to establish the discussion please feel free.

[jason56]

(4th January 2012 00:59)reverendjeremiah Wrote:  jus·tice
   [juhs-tis] Show IPA

noun
1.
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

2.
rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3.
the moral principle determining just conduct.

4.
conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5.
the administering of deserved punishment or reward.


Which one are we talking about?

Is it right to shoot a man that steals your fish?

Even if that fish is your wife?

I didn't see that in your seven line definition of "justice".

[houseofcantor]

Justice is an identity and thus dual-state. One Justice is served, one Justice gets served; it may not be possible to reconcile the two. As a servant of Justice I am the law, which is love; how the law is expressed becomes Justice.

See the problem?

[jason56]

Yeah, justice is a by-product of hindsight.

[houseofcantor]

(4th January 2012 00:59)reverendjeremiah Wrote:  jus·tice
   [juhs-tis] Show IPA

noun
1.
the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.

2.
rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3.
the moral principle determining just conduct.

4.
conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5.
the administering of deserved punishment or reward.


Which one are we talking about?

There's a good quantity of laying down the law coming out of this anarchist. Prolly why we get along.

---

(4th January 2012 02:05)jason56 Wrote:  Yeah, justice is a by-product of hindsight.

Why she's a superhero in my mind. Like Rayne, with short red hair and the skin-tight leather... with a whip instead of a blade... yeah, Justice is Served!

I'm an anarchist because I have faith that man is a moral creature, that when she's done being Rayne, she'll be local to all identites.

[Minimalist]

Something can be legal without being "just."