Question about meaning and perception of reality from a theist.

[amkerman]

Can life have meaning w/o God? I mean I understand how we could perceive it to be have meaninb w/o God, but that perception is just illusory isn't it? Without God aren't life and death ultimately meaningless?

As far as I can understand EITHER life has real meaning and there must be something real which we call "God" or "meaning" OR any "meaning" in life is illusory and people choose to believe in the illusion of God to give their life meaning.

Believing that meaning is real but that "God" is illusory doesn't make any sense. It's exactly the same belief. It would just be another unverifiable belief for which the word "God" has been replaced with the word "meaning".

If someone could explain how life has real meaning without "God" I am all ears. Honestly I'm not trying to get into an argument I just want to hear the rationalization.

If you believe it can't and it doesn't that's fine, it's just a difference of opinion. I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYONE's BELIEFS.

Furthermore, since all of our understanding of reality is based upon our perceptions, isn't the belief in the validity of human "perception" exactly the same as a belief in "God"? They are both ultimately beliefs in the unverifiable.

[leo-rcc]

Without God aren't life and death ultimately meaningless?

Why would it be any more meaningful with a god?

[amkerman]

Are you willing to even attempt an honest response leo, or are you just interested in nay-saying?

I'm more than happy to respond to your question, but I'll refrain from doing so until someone decides to actually answer my op so as not to get off topic.

[leo-rcc]

It is a legitimate question. I have no idea what you mean with meaning, and why a god must be involved. If you cannot elaborate on that fine, but do not question my motives for asking.

[Erinome]

Can life have meaning w/o God? I mean I understand how we could perceive it to be have meaninb w/o God, but that perception is just illusory isn't it? Without God aren't life and death ultimately meaningless?

What makes you so certain that the perception that there is a god isn't illusory?

As far as I can understand EITHER life has real meaning and there must be something real which we call "God" or "meaning" OR any "meaning" in life is illusory and people choose to believe in the illusion of God to give their life meaning.

I'll go with the latter. If there is a god, and he has a meaning for us, then what is it? What is the meaning of the life of a starving child, ravaged with AIDS?

Believing that meaning is real but that "God" is illusory doesn't make any sense. It's exactly the same belief. It would just be another unverifiable belief for which the word "God" has been replaced with the word "meaning".

Why can we not decide what our own, very practical meaning is? How does the meaning I have assigned to myself, which is to raise my children to be critical thinkers, and to show them how to love, have anything to do with any gods? I don't think I am special, nor do I presume that some god has a special meaning for me. I'm not an arrogant asshole.

If someone could explain how life has real meaning without "God" I am all ears. Honestly I'm not trying to get into an argument I just want to hear the rationalization.

What I want to know is what meaning you think god gives? Why does life need real meaning? Aren't you enjoying life? If you can't enjoy life because you don't understand the meaning of life, perhaps the meaning of your life is to torture yourself with unanswerable, inane questions until you die.

If you believe it can't and it doesn't that's fine, it's just a difference of opinion. I AM NOT ATTACKING ANYONE's BELIEFS.

I believe the meaning of life is what you want it to be.

Furthermore, since all of our understanding of reality is based upon our perceptions, isn't the belief in the validity of human "perception" exactly the same as a belief in "God"? They are both ultimately beliefs in the unverifiable.

Who believes in the validity of human perception?

[amkerman]

So what I mean by "meaning": purpose. I go to the store for the purpose of buying milk. The "meaning" of my trip to the store is to get milk.

I never said a God must be involved. I asked how purpose or "meaning" in life could be real w/o God.

If you don't believe "meaning" is real, if you believe that meaning is just illusory, that's fine.

[Erinome]

Is there any evidence to the contrary?

[amkerman]

I'll give you an example. I'm not sure if you have children or not, but suppose you do. If your child was killed, you would probably think that would be bad. You would most likely think so because you believe that your child is of value; that your child had worth and purpose. Do you think that your child actually has worth or value or purpose, "meaning", or is that meaning to your childs life merely illusory, a figment of your perception as the father?

[Anomalocaris]

You just can't give it up, can you?

[amkerman]

I don't understand all the questions to my question. I think it is pretty straight forward. Leo: I could try to answer your question but I will wait.

Loura: evidence doesn't matter. Im just asking for someone to rationalize how there can be a real "meaning" to life. I don't get how someone killing someone else is actually "wrong" if life has no meaning beyond our personal beliefs.

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I'll give it up when someone actually answers. The question is right there clear as day. Just answer it and shut me up. I want to shut up, I really do, but everyone just insists on dodging the question and talking about unrelated things.

If you can't attempt an answer just say so, or don't say anything and let someone who wants to try have a turn.