Jaysus effin' Christ!! Santorum on abortion due to rape

[reverendjeremiah]

Would you support a woman being able to chose wether a man she is having sex with can be sterile or not?

What if the woman wants a baby with that man, but he got fixed in the past? Should she be able to force him to become fertile again?

On the opposite end, should a woman who wishes to not become pregnant have her say so in wether a man can be sterilized or not?

Its not as biased as most people make it seem.

If a man can force a woman to carry a baby she DOESNT want to term for the mans benefit, then clearly it would also be just as fair to allow the woman to force a man to become sterile if she wishes not to become pregnant.

In the politest tone possible, did you think about any of that as it relates to what we are talking about before you wrote it?

A. When I wrote biased, I was clearly talking about the court system and how it handles child custody and support.

B. Sterility has nothing to do with existing pregnancies. We are not talking about birth control, we are talking about pregnancy.

C. A woman can opt for birth control, so she already has a say in whether she can get pregnant or not.

D. A woman already has a say on who she fucks. Therefore, if she wants children, she can choose a man who is not sterile.

E. Never, in any way shape or form, did I say a person should be able to force another person to have any kind of surgery. To even suggest that is in some way equal to the argument I presented is fucking ludicrous.

The bottom line is that the only part of child rearing and making that is the sole responsibility of the mother is carrying the child. If she does not want to keep the child, what is the problem with the man keeping it, if he wants to. If I got pregnant -- which I never have -- and my significant other wanted to keep the baby, I did not and there was no forseeable burden to my health, I would certainly carry it, if he agreed that I would not have to raise it. Of course, that would depend on a number of other factors, but why should that discourse be completely off of the table? Seriously, a womb is not some secret magical thing. It's a fucking organ. It doesn't make someone special or above reproach. A woman can get an abortion and be wrong! Again, I am pro-choice. That doesn't make every woman who gets an abortion right. Some of them are fuckwits who use it as birth control. Some of them do it to get back at their spouses. Oh, and I never said anyone should be forced to do anything.

It wasnt my intention to assume anything. I merely pointed out some questions that never get brought up in the conversation.

Abortion is always about the woman when in reality it takes two to tango.

[Shell B]

It also takes two to conceive and both potentially lose in an abortion.

[reverendjeremiah]

It also takes two to conceive and both potentially lose in an abortion.

Except when sperm banks are involved.

I wonder if a woman ever went to a sperm bank to get knocked up, then decided later to have an abortion?


LOL

As nutty as it sounds, Im sure it has probably happened in America at least once.

[Rokcet Scientist]

It also takes two to conceive and both potentially lose in an abortion.

Except when sperm banks are involved.

I wonder if a woman ever went to a sperm bank to get knocked up, then decided later to have an abortion?

LOL

As nutty as it sounds, Im sure it has probably happened in America at least once.

Hey, you've got the seed of a TV movie, a column, and a book right there, bro!
Maybe you can even expand it into a movie deal, and combine it with sex and horror! That would sell!
Who shall we cast for the parts?

[Aegrus]

Tiberius would do well to remember that someone without a uterus can fuck off with their pro-life opinions on this matter, no matter how moralistic their reasons.

Whoops. I'm going to disagree and piss people off. I'm pro-life. Yeah, pro-life in that way that I think people have a right to life. Do I think people should be forced to carry to term? No. However, I do not think that all instances of abortion are that black and white. A man should have some say in it, assuming he came about his fatherhood in a legal, non-violent way. Hey, if the girl wants an abortion and the father is willing to let her sign over parental rights and raise the kid, maybe there should be a discussion. At any rate, the bottom line is that everyone has a right to an opinion. While I do not disagree with abortion, it has to be said that some other opinions actually have very sound reasoning backing them up. A father has a sentimental right to his offspring, same as a mother. A fetus may just be a fetus to me or you, but it is really viewed as a human by others. I would feel pretty uncomfortable about it too if I did not understand the basic mechanics of fetal development. Anyway, I have never seen Adrian write anything that is the type of "Pro-life" that we all so hate. I believe his position lies in father's rights, which I think are greatly ignored.

If only more fundies tried these arguments, maybe I wouldn't be so inclined to hate them.

Anyway, I'm not sure where I stand on most cases of abortion- but I am of the opinion that a woman who is raped should be able to have an abortion if she wants, and women whose lives are threatened by a pregnancy should also be able to have abortions. So, Rick Santorum=nutball.

[Erinome]

Tiberius would do well to remember that someone without a uterus can fuck off with their pro-life opinions on this matter, no matter how moralistic their reasons.

Whoops. I'm going to disagree and piss people off. I'm pro-life. Yeah, pro-life in that way that I think people have a right to life. Do I think people should be forced to carry to term? No. However, I do not think that all instances of abortion are that black and white. A man should have some say in it, assuming he came about his fatherhood in a legal, non-violent way. Hey, if the girl wants an abortion and the father is willing to let her sign over parental rights and raise the kid, maybe there should be a discussion. At any rate, the bottom line is that everyone has a right to an opinion. While I do not disagree with abortion, it has to be said that some other opinions actually have very sound reasoning backing them up. A father has a sentimental right to his offspring, same as a mother. A fetus may just be a fetus to me or you, but it is really viewed as a human by others. I would feel pretty uncomfortable about it too if I did not understand the basic mechanics of fetal development. Anyway, I have never seen Adrian write anything that is the type of "Pro-life" that we all so hate. I believe his position lies in father's rights, which I think are greatly ignored.

Too bad they can't transfer the fetus into the man. Ever carried a baby to term?

Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
heartburn and indigestion
constipation
weight gain
dizziness and light-headedness
bloating, swelling, fluid retention
hemmorhoids
abdominal cramps
yeast infections
congested, bloody nose
acne and mild skin disorders
skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
mild to severe backache and strain
increased headaches
difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
increased urination and incontinence
bleeding gums
pica
breast pain and discharge
swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
inability to take regular medications
shortness of breath
higher blood pressure
hair loss
tendency to anemia
curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
(pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
extreme pain on delivery
hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

stretch marks (worse in younger women)
loose skin
permanent weight gain or redistribution
abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
changes to breasts
varicose veins
scarring from episiotomy or c-section
other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)
Occasional complications and side effects:

spousal/partner abuse
hyperemesis gravidarum
temporary and permanent injury to back
severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
gestational diabetes
placenta previa
anemia (which can be life-threatening)
thrombocytopenic purpura
severe cramping
embolism (blood clots)
medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
hormonal imbalance
ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
hemorrhage and
numerous other complications of delivery
refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
severe post-partum depression and psychosis
research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease
Less common (but serious) complications:

peripartum cardiomyopathy
cardiopulmonary arrest
magnesium toxicity
severe hypoxemia/acidosis
massive embolism
increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
malignant arrhythmia
circulatory collapse
placental abruption
obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:
future infertility
permanent disability
death.

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm


If a man wants his baby, he needs to find a willing host for his fetus. Most of the girls having elective abortions are quite young. The fathers of these children vary in age, but I rarely see a woman over 25. These girls are victims of a society that refuses to responsibly educate them about safe-sex practices. From the really young ones (13-18) I often hear things like, "I didn't know.." or my favorite, "I didn't know it could happen on my first time."

No you want them to be victims of these happy-hard on putzes who decide they want the fruits of a woman's womb, for whatever reason? The boy who impregnated the girl might want the child, but he doesn't have to have his body invaded so intensely for 40 weeks of his life, and then give birth to a baby that he doesn't want, that he isn't ready to love. He gets to sit there and wait. Scratch his balls, drink his beer, keep his dignity, remain in control of his bowels. The mother bears all the burden, and that's fair to you? As a woman... really?

Some men do see abortions as murdering a human life. Those men should refrain from sticking their unprotected dick into women who aren't ready for a baby, and the government of every state, and the federal government should stop funding public schools who are unwilling to make birth control a topic of health class/readily available through the school nurse.

---

It also takes two to conceive and both potentially lose in an abortion.

Except when sperm banks are involved.

I wonder if a woman ever went to a sperm bank to get knocked up, then decided later to have an abortion?


LOL

As nutty as it sounds, Im sure it has probably happened in America at least once.

I've witnessed it twice.

[Zen Badger]

For what it's worth I'm pro-choice, it is afterall the womans body.

However, I don't think it should be allowed after the third trimester unless for medical reasons.

If you can't make a decision in six months......

[KichigaiNeko]

I am thinking about 10 weeks is the 'safe' period for the female. any longer ...well then you have the dramas of 'miscarriage" do deal with and this will not help the female

[reverendjeremiah]

For what it's worth I'm pro-choice, it is afterall the womans body.

However, I don't think it should be allowed after the third trimester unless for medical reasons.

If you can't make a decision in six months......

See, thats the nice thing about supporting abortion all the way up to birth. You leave the decision and the risks to the pregnant woman with her doctor telling her the risks she will take depending on the time frame.

If you wish to legislate it, then why not also legislate against other risky surgeries and procedures, like a triple bypass has a high chance of being fatal to the person receiving it, so therefore you should also ban such a procedure for medical reasons as well..

...or is it REALLY not about the risks involved and more about something else to you?

[Shell B]

Too bad they can't transfer the fetus into the man. Ever carried a baby to term?

The drama team can stop acting like I said anyone should be forced to do anything and read it the way it was written -- father's rights should have some consideration.

Now, my ever carrying a baby to term is irrelevent.

I don't need a list of potential side effects. I'm a 29-year-old women with five sisters, nine nieces and nephews and a midwife for a sister. I understand you consider yourself an expert on the topic and you certainly know something of it. However, I'm talking about opinions on parent's rights, not forcing people to carry babies. Furthermore, those are potential side effects. Many women carry babies with no permanent damage. Both of my grandmothers had ten children and one died of an aneurism and the other of cancer. Both died as old women. Hmmmm . . .

If a man wants his baby, he needs to find a willing host for his fetus. Most of the girls having elective abortions are quite young. The fathers of these children vary in age, but I rarely see a woman over 25. These girls are victims of a society that refuses to responsibly educate them about safe-sex practices. From the really young ones (13-18) I often hear things like, "I didn't know.." or my favorite, "I didn't know it could happen on my first time."

This is all irrelevant. When I say, make little girls carry babies to term against their will, you can educate me on the ills of that. The bottom line is that I never said women should be "forced" to carry to term. I certainly never said girls should.

No you want them to be victims of these happy-hard on putzes who decide they want the fruits of a woman's womb, for whatever reason? The boy who impregnated the girl might want the child, but he doesn't have to have his body invaded so intensely for 40 weeks of his life, and then give birth to a baby that he doesn't want, that he isn't ready to love. He gets to sit there and wait. Scratch his balls, drink his beer, keep his dignity, remain in control of his bowels. The mother bears all the burden, and that's fair to you? As a woman... really?

Yeah, because I said all of that. Give it a rest for fuck's sake. To paraphrase what I said, if a man wants to keep the kid and is willing to let the mother sign over parents rights and not help . . . there should be some discussion. If she isn't ready to have a child, she can give it to the father. I realize it is a pet habit for extremist to go, "Holy fuck! You're a woman and you want 12-year-olds to carry rapist's babies!" and other such nonsense. However, I am relatively certain you have the mental capacity to realize that is not at all what I said, Alei. Also, you are presenting all men as ball scratching beer drinkers. Yeah, I'm relatively certain that is not what my father did when I was born.

Some men do see abortions as murdering a human life. Those men should refrain from sticking their unprotected dick into women who aren't ready for a baby, and the government of every state, and the federal government should stop funding public schools who are unwilling to make birth control a topic of health class/readily available through the school nurse.

Yeah, because that is how it always goes down. What is it with people on the extreme ends of this debate? They could have agreed to get pregnant and then she flakes. Has that never happened where you work or is only just Christian teen mothers and girls whose boyfriends sat outside scratching their balls and getting drunk while their girlfriend had an abortion? They're all victims? Bullshit!

And . . . again . . . I have never said women should be forced to carry a baby. I am saying there should be an option for her to sign over parental rights to the father at birth to make it possible for a man to get full custody of a baby a mom does not want right at birth. I know, it's so evil of me.

---

No you want them to be victims of these happy-hard on putzes who decide they want the fruits of a woman's womb, for whatever reason?

Oh, and this demands comment. The fruits of a woman's womb for whatever reason? What are you a uterine supremacist? You need sperm too. And . . . how about so he can have his child? Whatever reason? Seriously. I don't want to speculate, but I can only assume your dad isn't the cat's meow. I just can't understand why you would minimize a father's role in a child's life so much. It baffles me. My dad is the fucking man.