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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:08 pm by Rokcet Scientist.)
(February 29, 2012 at 12:03 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Like I said, it's a good hunch, and it's entirely likely that we will find something as we get better at sifting through submerged sites, but pinning that something down to specifics without the evidence is hand as though it were inevitable...well...
The Solutrean theory panned out too, didn't it?
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:11 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Are you just fucking with me?  Why, pray tell, do you feel that the Solutrean Theory didn't pan out?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:15 pm
R/S and I have had this argument so many times...may as well have it again.
Walking through the wilderness is not a day at the park. Cutting through brush, mud, ravines, ridges, every stream crossing is an event and every river crossing is a potential disaster. The men must always have their weapons at hand and the women are toting the children which limits what they can carry.
Sea travel is so much easier. Perhaps that is why until the railroads came along in the 19th century the surest way to move anything or anyone was by sea.
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:19 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:22 pm by Rokcet Scientist.)
(February 29, 2012 at 12:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Are you just fucking with me?
No. It's the same situation. The Solutreans going to America was a logical inference, supported by circumstantial evidence (lithics), and subsequently, now, proven by geological fingerprinting.
HE going to America is the logical inference of their trek and diaspora before. Imo, we 'just' have to find the evidence to confirm it.
Quote:Why, pray tell, do you feel that the Solutrean Theory didn't pan out?
I don't know where you got that. The Solutrean theory did pan out!
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:20 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sea travel sure, because despite what people may think, most of deep water is effectively empty, but not the shore or near-shore, that's teeming with life (and not generally friendly life). I appreciate that we find most human settlements or remains (to this very day) very close to the shore. Those shores also include rivers. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we did find exactly what RS is proposing, we simply haven't yet. While he may feel comfortable adding some degree of certitude I am not. It's just as likely that we don't actually find what we expect to be there as it is that we might (and some would argue even more likely..judging by the history of archaeology and anthropology...which is filled to the brim with unrealized expectations).
I'm sorry, RS, I misread that post..lol. I saw sarcasm where there was none.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:33 pm by Rokcet Scientist.)
90% of the world's hominid population lives within 100 miles of the sea. That wasn't any different 3, 2, and 1 MYA.
And guess how much coastline was submerged by the rising sea levels? Exactly! Those same 100 miles (give or take)!
Small wonder we haven't found anything (yet).
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Again, if I haven't made this perfectly clear in each and every post....I think that the proposition has merit, but I would with-hold any degree of certitude until evidence is in hand.
Let me put this another way, using the example of who may have been the "first americans". Consider how long it took for the notion of an earlier migration to even be considered seriously. In this case is wasn't so much that we didn't have evidence that would lead us to question or conclusions (we absolutely did), it was the artificial certainty, the bets that the majority viewpoint felt safe in making, that directly contributed to hindering any serious investigation (and that's being generous, it would be just as accurate to say that those bets were the only factor in hindering our investigations).
I have a suggestion as to what kind of place we might look, just as proof of concept. Areas of land that were once sea level, connected to the sea, which have since risen, or where the sea has since retreated. We might expect to find something there. Such places do exist, even in the short geologic timespan that we're talking about.
Florida, for example, counterintuitively...(or more generally the SE US)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm
(February 29, 2012 at 12:30 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Florida, for example, counterintuitively...
Better be quick then: Florida will be gone (too) by 2100 AD... 
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RE: The 'First Nations' have some explaining to do
February 29, 2012 at 12:55 pm
(This post was last modified: February 29, 2012 at 12:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So they say, but sea levels have been rising for awhile and Florida has actually been getting bigger. You'd have to completely stop a few important currents to get rid of our nations swinging richard..lol. Florida, like it's residents, has been stubbornly refusing to die for quite some time...lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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