Religions teach backward ideas - Yes & No

[Darwinian]

It's not a question of whether mankind had proved these facts or not. The Qur'an hadn't proved them either, it had simply alluded to them in vague verses.

The thing is that these 'facts' whether actually proved by mankind or not, had certainly been known about, discussed and written down before the Qur'an had ever been thought about.

[leo-rcc]

btw, have you checked these "facts"? I saw at least two that were in error and that was just by glancing over them.

[peace2u]

(7th June 2009 12:30)Darwinian Wrote:  It's not a question of whether mankind had proved these facts or not. The Qur'an hadn't proved them either, it had simply alluded to them in vague verses.

The purpose of these facts was for the Quran to stand the test of time so that in the future (like now as we live in the age of science, facts and technology) people could check the authenticity of the Quran and whether it was Divine or not. Before it was the age of miracles and people of that time required evidence from their prophets to show them a sign of God to believe in their message. However, we cannot go back and check miracles. Then become the age of Literature and Poetry. In the Quran, God test mankind to produce a single chapter like it in Arabic (the smallest is 3 verses) because the Quran is the best book in Arabic Literature but no one has achieved it. Now we live in the age of science and therefore all these facts in the Quran are there so that it could stand the test of time of today.

These people verses are not vague verses because scientists who are specialised in the different areas of science; when they investigate that facts in the Quran, it matches with their discovery (eg. Dr Keith Moore).

Quote:The thing is that these 'facts' whether actually proved by mankind or not, had certainly been known about, discussed and written down before the Qur'an had ever been thought about.

Suppose that few of these facts could have been known before the Quran but let me give you a few points to think about. The Quran mentioned over hundreds of facts. What is the Probability of someone collecting or knowing all the facts that were going to be proven in the future knowing that one wrong fact could affect the authenticity of the Quran? Secondly, there were many ideas at that the time of the Quran and before that went against the established facts of today. What is the Probability of someone selecting or knowing only the correct facts and inserting them in the Quran which were going to be proven in the future?
Finally, there are facts in the Quran which people did not know at that time or thought off or had ideas of or mentioned, which are now discovered. What is the probability of someone knowing them and inserting in the Quran?

I suggest you use the Mathematical Probability.

[Sam]

Hey all and peace2u ...

Sorry If I'm coming late to the game here, but I have been a little busy with exams and the like and have just been reading through a few posts and catching up ...

I haven't had a lot of free time, so I'm just picking at the points I understand the most, hope this is okay!

(4th June 2009 22:25)peace2u Wrote:  Below are some of the many Scientifics facts mentioned in the Quran way before man proved it to be accurate.

1. The Sun will Extinguish

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing. (Chapter 36 verse 38)

Unfortunately, I don't see how this demonstrates any knowledge beyond that of the time. People used to be of the impression that the sun was simply a huge 'fireball' like any other fire ... so it is only natural to assume that it would burn out. This doesn't come anywhere near the modern understanding of the solar life-cycle ...

(4th June 2009 22:25)peace2u Wrote:  2. The Expanding Universe

In 1925, Edwin Hubble, provided observational evidence that all galaxies are moving away from one another, which implies that the universe is expanding. The expansion of the universe is now an established scientific fact. This is what the Qur’an says regarding the nature of the universe.

And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. (Chapter 51 verse 47)

Could I just double check this one; "the heaven WE constructed"? that seems a little contradictory! Unless this is the person of 'God' speaking? Further more, the paraphrased term 'We are its expander' doesn't suggest a knowledge of an expanding universe it's more a reference to a control over the environment being spoken off ... thats my interpretation, but the phrase is very ambigous and vague.

(4th June 2009 22:25)peace2u Wrote:  4. Mountains are like tent pegs

Geologists tell us that the radius of the Earth is about 6,035 km and the crust on which we live is very thin, ranging between 2 to 35 km. Since the crust is thin, it has a high possibility of shaking. Mountains act like stakes or tent pegs that hold the earth’s crust and give it stability. The Qur’an contains exactly such a description:

Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs? (Chapter 78 Verse 6-7)

The word awtaad means stakes or pegs (like those used to anchor a tent); they are the deep foundations of geological folds.

Now, this one puzzled me ... you seem to (roughly) grasp the basic quantitive information about the size of various things, but couple it with a ludicrous understnding of Tectonic Theory and Isostacy ... The crust does not have a 'high probability of shaking because it is thin' Earthquakes (i.e. crustal shaking) occur because tension (related to extensional or compresional forces within the crust) builds up within the lithospheric plates (what the lay man calls the 'crust') this is released sending a shockwave through the solid plates. So (simply) the 'Crust' experiences earthquakes because it a) is solid and b) develops internal stress which needs to be released.

Secondly, though it is proven that Moutains have deep 'roots' which protrude further down into the matle than the rest of the crust, they do not 'stabilise it' from earthquakes ... In fact the pressure build up caused by plate subduction (which forms mountains) causes a large percentage of all earthquakes. The main effect these moutain belts have is coloquially known as 'continental drag' wherby they slow the relative motion of their respective plates.

I'd ask you to trust me on this, I study Earth Sciences (inc. geology) and have been doing so for 5 years now and not once have I heard a geologist refer to the moutain ranges of the Earth as 'pegs' which stabalise the crust.

(4th June 2009 22:25)peace2u Wrote:  Conclusion

The scientific evidences of the Qur’an clearly prove its Divine origin. No human could have produced a book, fourteen hundred years ago, that would contain such profound scientific facts. The Qur’an, however, is not a book of Science but a book of ‘Signs’. These signs invite Man to realize the purpose of his existence on earth, and to live in harmony with Nature. The Qur’an is truly a message from Allah, the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. It contains the same Message of the Oneness of God, that was preached by all prophets, right from Adam, Moses, Jesus to Muhammad (peace be upon them).

I looked through your other quotes and various videos you've posted but I am yet to see an explicit statement of scientific fact that is clearly recognisable as something beyond the perceptions of the people writing the Qur'an.

I think for you to prove this theory, you would need to locate a verse in the Qur'an that acurately predicts the exact scientific basis of a modern theory or something yet to be discovered ... only then could you truly verify the possibiity of 'Divine Inspiration'

Cheers

Sam

P.s. Sorry for any sloppy spelling/grammar.