On Catholicism

[Kyuuketsuki]

A question, for Frodo I suppose but anyone else chip in.

Suggestion has been made that Catholics are different from other Christian cults and I accept that though not so much that it stops them being Christian but I was under the impression that Catholicism devolves directly from the original Holy Roman Empire after Constantine usurped Christianity for his own needs and that the other Christian cults devolved from it inasmuch as they split from Catholicism under Martin Luther.

I guess I'm seeking clarification here and an explanation as to how the Rat Catchers can be considered so very different, be so ostracized by the other cults ... to my mind (and that's all it is, opinion) it looks more like hatred similar to that I see in Islam against Christianity because they don't like to acknowledge that they sprung from them.

Comments?

Kyu

[fr0d0]

From what I understand the Catholic church had become unrecognizable as a christian church which is what prompted Martin Luther to make such an extreme stand. It wasn't just a branch of the cult, but a complete prune back to the bare wood.

The church had become way too powerful to want to give any of their possessions up, just like the Bible condemns is the bad thing to do. This is exactly what the church had become. The antithesis of itself. The Catholic church by collaboration, in the mould of the Roman model, possessed & operated between 1/4 & 1/3 of the total land mass of Western Europe tax free. (J.B.Russel, A History of Medieval Christianity P92).

Yes there have been some amazing people who've contributed as much as anyone working inside the Catholic church. Funny how it's usually a small minority that actually follow what we recognise to be right and good.

So what we have left in the present is a strange Catholic church, still clinging on to bad habits and wanting to believe itself a 'split' from mainstream Christianity at best, and 'The One True Church' at worst.

Like Islam, Catholicism claims membership through birth and association alone. Ignoring the real deal which is following what the Bible actually says rather than adopting blindly the hypocrisies of some of it's teaching. Superstition is widespread and importantly, officially sanctioned.

For these reasons I believe that the Catholic church is a Christian church only by loose association. Yes it's completely possible and does happen that Catholics are actually Christians as well. But for the reasons pointed out very clearly by Martin Luther, Catholicism no longer equals Christianity.

[WWLD]

I don't really know much about the history, but when I was a Catholic I always considered myself to be a christian, and so did all the other Catholics I knew.

I believe I've talked about this on the forums before.

[fr0d0]

Christian as in like non Catholic Christians or Christian because you were a Catholic WWLD?

[Edwardo Piet]

Catholics are Christians by definition unless you're applying the NTS or you have your own personal warped definition that only applies to you (or whoever else you want to include (which is basically NTS)).

Catholics believe in and follow CHRIST...this makes them CHRIST-IAN.

EvF

[fr0d0]

Get down off that high horse Evie!

We've had this discussion, and Kyu covered it in his opening post. Here we've moved on from that point.

I was asking WWLD if she thought of herself of Christian in the wider sense or a Christian by association with Catholicism. It's a separate point. I'm interested to see if she (or Catholics in general) considered other Christians when believing that.

[Giff]

Don't know where you got catcholics isn't christians from. There's nothing that says they aren't. It's just you who think so.

Even though it has been discussed, and you are asking another question now, is it still remarkeble that you not yet have accepted that you are wrong.

I think that catholics see other as christians and I think that pretty much what WWLD will answer.

[Kyuuketsuki]

We've had this discussion, and Kyu covered it in his opening post. Here we've moved on from that point.

I agree ... although it is quite amusing to see it devolve into the same argument.

Regardless I appreciate the feedback F.

Kyu

[fr0d0]

Indeed...

Like I said last time, and many other times... Catholics ARE Christians - so sayeth the wider Christian church. Now back on topic!

[Edwardo Piet]

Christian as in like non Catholic Christians or Christian because you were a Catholic WWLD?

Oh sorry fr0d0. I misunderstood this statement I believe (although the way it is/was phrased it still confuses me).

You were/are asking whether she at the time considered non-Catholic Christians to also be Christians or only Catholics like herself is that right?

I think it's because more correctly it should be Christian as in ANY christian Non-Catholic AND Catholic OR Catholic only. Because I don't know why a Catholic would consider themselves to be Christian as in a 'non Catholic Christian' if they ARE Catholic ( a Catholic Christian). Perhaps that's what confused me :S

Apologies for my misunderstanding anyways.

EvF