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Noah's Ark
21st March 2012, 05:24
Post: #211
  17k posts! 3 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
Did somebody say fact? Where?
“I find something repulsive about the idea of vicarious redemption. I would not throw my numberless sins onto a scapegoat and expect them to pass from me" - Christopher Hitchens.
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21st March 2012, 05:33
Post: #212
    2 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
(19th March 2012 02:34)Drich Wrote:  
(19th March 2012 02:23)mediamogul Wrote:  Drich I have a question.

What would it take for you to believe that the story of Noah was untrue or at least unsupported by fact?
If God told me it was not true, I suppose there would be little i could say. That said, I do not question the facts or lack of them that support the genesis account of the flood. As i said in the beginning this is a matter of faith.

So here I have shown the original quote where you state that your belief in the bible is not a matter of evidence. You claim, read above, it is a matter of faith. Then when we started talking about how you know the bible is true you started talking about "evidence" but never listed what the evidence was. You simply continued with the circular bible argument, which we have all heard a million times. Then you stated that no other religions make the claim your book makes (while denying that no other monotheistic religions claim a 'personal' relationship with god). Finally you have stated that you have "evidence" by what scripture promised you but have yet to actually list anything that could be considered actual scientifically verifiable evidence. That about catches us up. What then is this undeniable evidence that you have, in such a cloak and dagger way, failed to mention up until this point? You'd think that would be something you would state right up front. So please enlighten us.Worship (large)
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche

"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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21st March 2012, 06:26
Post: #213
  5k posts! 2 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
[quote='mediamogul' pid='258846' dateline='1332304420']
[quote]So here I have shown the original quote where you state that your belief in the bible is not a matter of evidence. You claim, read above, it is a matter of faith.[/quote]Hello Humility my old friend, nice to see you again at another one of my foolish mistakes. So allow me to fix this for you: " IT Is a Matter of Faith in the evidence provided by the full fillment of the promises left in scripture." Ta Daa now it reads consistently!


[quote]Then when we started talking about how you know the bible is true you started talking about "evidence" but never listed what the evidence was. [/quote]Because no one asked.

[quote]You simply continued with the circular bible argument, which we have all heard a million times.[/quote]Maybe because you have never explored beyond what it is you think you know of Christianity. the last comment was a perfect example.

[quote]Then you stated that no other religions make the claim your book makes (while denying that no other monotheistic religions claim a 'personal' relationship with god). Finally you have stated that you have "evidence" by what scripture promised you but have yet to actually list anything that could be considered actual scientifically verifiable evidence. [/quote]

Again have you asked for said scripture? Many of you see posted scripture as an affront to your intelligence demanding that we predigest everything in the bible for you. (I assume it is because you find it easier to attack when someone gives a personal interpretation, Perhaps you are relying on the idea that we have taken it from a commentary we do not completely understand. Plus as a last resort you can always demand the scripture if someone gets too familair) either way I found that my experience here and places like this, go much easier if the person I write to knows He is writing to me rather than a list of books and numbers. That said know i am very well versed and can given you all the book Chapter and verse you ask for. just say the word, or rather ask of me what it is you wish to see and I will happily comply.

[quote]That about catches us up. What then is this undeniable evidence that you have, in such a cloak and dagger way, failed to mention up until this point? You'd think that would be something you would state right up front. So please enlighten us.Worship (large)[/quote]
Ahhh I was waiting for this. OK so here goes
The whole thing boils down to just a few verses:
We start in Luke 11:
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Do you know what we are supposed to be Asking Seeking Knocking for?
Our own personal Measure of the Holy Spirit. (As mention by the last line of this passage) Meaning We literally have a small piece of God indwell us. We ask in prayer, We seek in the bible, Church, and discussions like this one, we knock by Repeating this process UNTIL we get what we have been asking and seeking after (A measure of the Holy Spirit)

What does this mean? or How do we know we have apart of God living in us? We goto Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

At first glance one may say he can experience any of these attributes on his own. In truth the actual experiencing of these attributes are not what is being show cased, but the quality and duration of these attributes in the life of the believer. Meaning these are not passing feelings. These attributes become your defining characteristics. In short your demeanor changes to reflect the modest attributes or "Spiritual Fruit."

Once we develop Spiritual Fruit and are faithful to them we will soon receive Spiritual gifts. do you want to hear of the Gifts of the Spirit?

There is a list compiled from several different places. Not really pertainate to this discussion,(If so just ask) for the fact we can and still do obtain Spiritual fruit is enough to prove the existence of God.

I know for you this may seem trivial, but i assure you it is not. For literally A piece of God becomes apart of your life, and you over flow with His Spiritual fruit. Given enough time these fruit mature into gifts, allowing some to teach, some to preach, some to pray and praise. If one is faithful to what He has been given then Gifts translate into a deep personal relationship with God. Where one has access through the portion of the Holy Spirit that is with in him, to God Himself. This is the "proof" of God believers Have. They literally Carry God with in themselves. (Not a bunch of granted wishes) No other religion offers this.

For example, If you could ask God anything what would it be? What if he gave you an answer, and He said ask as many questions as you like and in turn you got ALL your answers.. All of them. then what would you do? Tell you what i would do, i would go on a Atheist website and get their questions because they are alot sharper and more "real" than my questions would be, and then take these questions to God to see what he has to say about them.

My next question is what does one do when the atheist forum runs out of legitimate questions???Wink
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21st March 2012, 06:43
Post: #214
    2 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
(21st March 2012 06:26)Drich Wrote:  [quote='mediamogul' pid='258846' dateline='1332304420']
Quote:So here I have shown the original quote where you state that your belief in the bible is not a matter of evidence. You claim, read above, it is a matter of faith.
Hello Humility my old friend, nice to see you again at another one of my foolish mistakes. So allow me to fix this for you: " IT Is a Matter of Faith in the evidence provided by the full fillment of the promises left in scripture." Ta Daa now it reads consistently!


Quote:Then when we started talking about how you know the bible is true you started talking about "evidence" but never listed what the evidence was.
Because no one asked.

Quote:You simply continued with the circular bible argument, which we have all heard a million times.
Maybe because you have never explored beyond what it is you think you know of Christianity. the last comment was a perfect example.

Quote:Then you stated that no other religions make the claim your book makes (while denying that no other monotheistic religions claim a 'personal' relationship with god). Finally you have stated that you have "evidence" by what scripture promised you but have yet to actually list anything that could be considered actual scientifically verifiable evidence.

Again have you asked for said scripture? Many of you see posted scripture as an affront to your intelligence demanding that we predigest everything in the bible for you. (I assume it is because you find it easier to attack when someone gives a personal interpretation, Perhaps you are relying on the idea that we have taken it from a commentary we do not completely understand. Plus as a last resort you can always demand the scripture if someone gets too familair) either way I found that my experience here and places like this, go much easier if the person I write to knows He is writing to me rather than a list of books and numbers. That said know i am very well versed and can given you all the book Chapter and verse you ask for. just say the word, or rather ask of me what it is you wish to see and I will happily comply.

Quote:That about catches us up. What then is this undeniable evidence that you have, in such a cloak and dagger way, failed to mention up until this point? You'd think that would be something you would state right up front. So please enlighten us.Worship (large)
Ahhh I was waiting for this. OK so here goes
The whole thing boils down to just a few verses:
We start in Luke 11:
5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread[d] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Do you know what we are supposed to be Asking Seeking Knocking for?
Our own personal Measure of the Holy Spirit. (As mention by the last line of this passage) Meaning We literally have a small piece of God indwell us. We ask in prayer, We seek in the bible, Church, and discussions like this one, we knock by Repeating this process UNTIL we get what we have been asking and seeking after (A measure of the Holy Spirit)

What does this mean? or How do we know we have apart of God living in us? We goto Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

At first glance one may say he can experience any of these attributes on his own. In truth the actual experiencing of these attributes are not what is being show cased, but the quality and duration of these attributes in the life of the believer. Meaning these are not passing feelings. These attributes become your defining characteristics. In short your demeanor changes to reflect the modest attributes or "Spiritual Fruit."

Once we develop Spiritual Fruit and are faithful to them we will soon receive Spiritual gifts. do you want to hear of the Gifts of the Spirit?

There is a list compiled from several different places. Not really pertainate to this discussion,(If so just ask) for the fact we can and still do obtain Spiritual fruit is enough to prove the existence of God.

I know for you this may seem trivial, but i assure you it is not. For literally A piece of God becomes apart of your life, and you over flow with His Spiritual fruit. Given enough time these fruit mature into gifts, allowing some to teach, some to preach, some to pray and praise. If one is faithful to what He has been given then Gifts translate into a deep personal relationship with God. Where one has access through the portion of the Holy Spirit that is with in him, to God Himself. This is the "proof" of God believers Have. They literally Carry God with in themselves. (Not a bunch of granted wishes) No other religion offers this.

For example, If you could ask God anything what would it be? What if he gave you an answer, and He said ask as many questions as you like and in turn you got ALL your answers.. All of them. then what would you do? Tell you what i would do, i would go on a Atheist website and get their questions because they are alot sharper and more "real" than my questions would be, and then take these questions to God to see what he has to say about them.

My next question is what does one do when the atheist forum runs out of legitimate questions???Wink

I knew it would be something like this. So once again we have an even more watered down version of the circular argument from scripture. I hate to burst your bubble but every religion has theur own definition of what their "mensch" is. That's one of the oldest promises of religion is to grow a person in the qualities of what they believe to be the ideal person. Those are just human values my friend. One doesn't require religion to be a good person. If we want to really get down to it those aren't even the highest of human virtues. They are just the weak inverted values of a person driven into a position of servitude and subserviency. No self respecting person would be caught dead groveling on their knees the way religious folks do.

Also I love this "how to pray" stuff. Now make sure you don't ask for anything that might be even remotely testable and unequivocally attributed to the prayer coming true because then it could be disproven. Make sure its something totally ambiguous and then we can interpret it however we want. If it fails outright we can just say "god works in mysterious ways" and call it a day. It's been said before but I'll say it again. Nothing fails like a prayer.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche

"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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Kudos given by (2): Epimethean, KichigaiNeko
21st March 2012, 14:07
Post: #215
  12k posts! 4 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
The saddest part is that the sheeple don't catch onto the scam.
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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21st March 2012, 18:43
Post: #216
  12k posts! 4 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
What's even sadder is all the sheeple who walk into the scam, blindly, willingly and wholeheartedly.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

Remember, if we don't sin, poor old Jesus died for nothing.
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22nd March 2012, 00:03
Post: #217
  17k posts! 3 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
So someone just likes to say the word fact, they didn't actually bring any?
“I find something repulsive about the idea of vicarious redemption. I would not throw my numberless sins onto a scapegoat and expect them to pass from me" - Christopher Hitchens.
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22nd March 2012, 00:51
Post: #218
Best Member 2012! 20k+ posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
Quote:The whole thing boils down to just a few verses:


Unfuckingbelievable that one human being could be that dense!
[Image: Atheismreality_zps62a2c96a.jpg]
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Kudos given by (1): LastPoet
4th June 2012, 15:35
Post: #219
  2k posts! 2 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
[Image: 290a28f48aa1e12ada50fcb077db8b32.jpg]
"Vanity, is definitely my favorite sin." Al Pacino, Devils Advocate.

(5th July 2012 17:47)RaphielDrake Wrote:  What? Its a legitimate question. You don't think its important? If you have some kind of information that makes your belief system stand out from the others I think everyone here needs to hear it.
(6th July 2012 08:04)fr0d0 Wrote:  BTW I've decided that I shouldn't try to out child children. Sorry kids Wink
Translation: Run away! :'(

(21st July 2012 17:11)RaphielDrake Wrote:  "What is this accepted interpretation of the Bible passages that talks about Lots daughters getting him drunk specifically to get pregnant? What is the accepted interpretation of the priest and the concubine?"
Once again, answer the questions or retreat fr0d0.
(21st July 2012 17:30)fr0d0 Wrote:  Hey Rap ;-)

I don't have an interpretation. Thank you for the complimentary Rabbi status though, I'm suitably flattered. I'll get back to you on your inability to use the internet later. Busy having a life here. I hope that you understand.
Translation: Run away again! :'(
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4th June 2012, 15:44
Post: #220
  4k posts! 2 years membership!
RE: Noah's Ark
I often like to bring up the dangerous animals in regards to this story. All they have is "poof" "God did it".

Really? Hippos in Africa kill more humans than alligators. They'd have us believe that animals like that magically ceased to do what they do in nature. They'd have us believe that cobras and dart frogs and black widows were on the ship? NO, THAT IS WHY when you go into some doctor's office there is always that stupid children's bible with cute farm animals.

And if these people would bother to actually read the bible they would KNOW that their are conflicting numbers. Some verses say 2 others say 7. But what about all the animals that didn't make it to the ship?

Lets forget for a second that if there millions of people on the planet, and only one family made it to the ship, even children and babies would have drowned, which is an act of genocide.

Lets forget that for a sec. What would a baby chimp, not one of the two or 7, could ever do to be tortured with such a horrible death? How about someone's puppy in that litter that didn't make it to the ship? Not only cruelty to humans, but cruelty to animals who cannot think like humans so would NOT deserve the death this alleged god would inflict on them if the story were true, which it is not.

The god of the bible treats humans and life as objects, lab rats, toys.
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