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More Kony Shit
26th March 2012, 22:16
Post: #21
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RE: More Kony Shit
I haven't given Invisible Children a penny, so many superior and needier causes.

Still, their aim as a charity is to create noise about issues, it worked.
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26th March 2012, 22:20
Post: #22
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RE: More Kony Shit
(26th March 2012 22:16)5thHorseman Wrote:  so many superior and needier causes.

What I'm saying in a nutshell.
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26th March 2012, 22:58 (This post was last modified: 26th March 2012 23:03 by Shell B.)
Post: #23
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RE: More Kony Shit
For the record, I gave you a thumbs up because, as a charity, they have succeeded in their cause. Most people who donate know what their cause is and it is a worthy one. Believe me, Kony may be on a list of douchebags, but he really is at the top of it. If we are going to expend our efforts globally, it should always be to help where help is needed.
If you don't like Invisible Children, but want to help, boost the African economy by choosing something from the area you want to support.

There are numerous organizations like this. You don't have to like all charities, but do not scorn those who support them. Short of human rights violations and theft, there is no reason to shun the supporters of any non-profit.
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26th March 2012, 23:16
Post: #24
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RE: More Kony Shit
(26th March 2012 22:12)Napoleon Wrote:  I don't think that was his 'entire point'. Bit of a straw man here.

Like I said, I do agree he seemed a bit sensationalist and 'conspiracy theorist', but as I also said, he raised important points also.

Ones I think deserve some acknowledgement.

I think it was. Maybe someone else can weigh in on it, but he kept on mentioning how the US government was talking about Iran, and links that together with the Kony 2012 video supposedly being "pro-war".

Quote:Not all military intervention is needed.
No, but how else do you catch the man? He has an army. You aren't going to be able to just send in the Ugandan police, or any police for that matter. We need people who are trained in fighting people with guns...that would be the military.

Quote:This was before the video even went viral. Correct?
Yes, a few months before. It was included in the video itself...

Quote:Okay, now I'm not against having these troops there to provide help and assistance (not actually to fight). And I'm not saying Kony should be able to get away with what he is/was doing. He's a war criminal no doubt about it. I'm not sitting here denying that. My problem is exactly what this video hopes to achieve. Is it simply raising awareness? Well if so, then you can definitely say it has done that. But why has it taken them so fucking long to get this message out? The thing that makes me annoyed about it all is that Kony isn't even supposed to be in Uganda anymore. Why was this not done 10 years ago when Kony was actually committing these atrocities, because I can tell you for a fact he's pretty inactive at the minute. Sure he could come back. But still, the damage has been done.

The video is about raising awareness and getting people to rally the government into continuing the mission in Uganda. Why did it take so long? Again, you seem to have missed vital parts of the Kony 2012 video. The first few minutes show Jason Russell (one of the co-founders) talking about Kony in front of large audiences. He's been doing this for years, trying to get the message out. The viral video is just their latest attempt to get people to care about this, and it worked.

I'm not sure why more wasn't done 10 years ago; it might be because the USA was fighting two wars and there would be no point even trying to petition the government to do anything. It might be because the entire group behind Kony 2012 didn't exist back then (they were founded in 2004).

The objection I don't understand the most has to be this idea that if he's not active anymore, and he's stopped committing crimes, we should just let him be. What kind of thinking is that? We shouldn't let people get away with any crime, especially when the number of victims is so high. This has nothing to do with whether he will ever regain power; this has everything to do with prosecuting a man who has committed the most atrocious crimes people's children.

Quote:Thanks for that lovely bit of patronisation. Believe me, I was just as ready as everyone else to throw my money away and buy myself an 'action kit' and all that.
I don't mean to be patronizing; apologies if it came across that way. I just don't understand why you are asking certain questions which were explained quite clearly in the actual film.

Quote:Then I encountered news stories and videos and they just made me stop and think. So I look into it further, and turns out, I don't really find that giving these people this money is the best way to be helping. Especially seen as they only send 32% of the income they make to the people in Africa who need the help.
If they billed themselves as a charity whose sole aim is to help rebuild schools, and local communities, then I'd agree with you. However, that's not what they are, and it's not what they've ever pretended to be. They explained their organisation on their website, in a rebuttal post to all the claims made against them, and numerous times in interviews. Sure, if you want to donate to charities which are spending more of their money on charitable works, you are free to. Invisible Children operates differently; trying to lobby governments into taking action, and that sort of lobbying requires money. They are also about spreading the message, which is why they have a large budget for films, and why they buy and sell merchandise.

Quote:The one point I just want to make very clear, is that sending money to this organisation, is in my opinion a waste when there are hundreds of other charities who would benefit from it far more. You are simply paying for the people behind "invisible children" to have private jets to Africa and back.
I haven't seen any evidence that they use private jets, but I could be wrong. I would be interested in seeing it if it exists.

Quote:Riiight. And the government wasn't already doing something before this? We've already established they sent troops to Uganda before the video went viral. What have they done since? I've not seen any mention from any politicians that they plan on hunting down Kony because they saw a Youtube video.
They haven't removed them, and Kony 2012 is just getting started. Things rarely change overnight, or over the course of a couple of weeks in politics. You are making a strawman yourself if you think politicians are going to act "because they saw a YouTube video". That isn't what anyone has said, and it certainly isn't what I said. I was very clear that it would be the public reaction that would get politician's attention.

Quote:I'm sorry. I should of said, "getting people to like a video, and buy their action kits and put up posters and wear fancy bracelets". My bad.
Don't buy their stuff then. They have all the material online for free; you can print your own posters, make your own t-shirts if you really object to giving them money. The only reason they sell the stuff is so that people don't have to go to that bother. I haven't seen any evidence that they make any profit off of their merchandise sales, but again, I could be wrong and would be interested in seeing any evidence.

Quote:I have no problem with people taking action and doing something immensely powerful within social media to help other less fortunate people. I agree with the main point of the video. I just take issue with the way they intend to go about it. And I think a hell of a lot of people will be/already are suckered in to supporting a dodgy charity by a misleading video. An organisation which is described from Foreign Affairs to "manipulate facts for strategic purposes".
I believe they answered those claims on their blog.

Quote:It is in mine too. Let me set it straight, Kony is a cunt, and needs to be apprehended. This video absolutely succeeded in getting the message out. However I think it is you who is missing an important point of the Kony video. To pay for these 'action kits' and to support 'innocent children'. I am merely questioning these two things. Not because I'm an asshole who wants to be a killjoy. I just think it's important to be skeptical, because no one really knows where their money is going.

I don't think it's a bad thing to question without jumping on the bandwagon. Something I expect many here to agree with.

It is important to be skeptical, and I looked into things as well, especially when all the controversy came out. However, they published their financial details, refuted the allegations, and in my opinion I think they are very good at what they set out to do, which wasn't to send loads of money to charitable causes (although they do do that as well), but was rather to try and get governments (i.e. the people with the most power and money) to use their influence and get the problem solved at the source. Building schools is great; more people should do it, but a school isn't going to stop Kony if he decided to start kidnapping children again. The only thing that will stop Kony is if he is arrested. That is what Kony 2012 is about.
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27th March 2012, 00:54 (This post was last modified: 27th March 2012 01:06 by Napoléon.)
Post: #25
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RE: More Kony Shit
(26th March 2012 22:58)Shell B Wrote:  You don't have to like all charities, but do not scorn those who support them.

I wasn't intending to do that if you're referring to me.

I'm not going to drag out an argument on this topic, I doubt anyone wants to be arguing over what charity is better than another.

Meh, I'll just say that I am very sceptical of this invisible children charity and for good enough reason from what I've seen. The Kony video was in my opinion misleading, not necessarily intentionally deceptive no, but misleading nonetheless.

I wasn't trying to bash on anyone for supporting Kony or any charity for that matter, I was just raising some points I wished for your opinions on.

Looks like I got that eh! Wink
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27th March 2012, 06:06 (This post was last modified: 27th March 2012 06:29 by theVOID.)
Post: #26
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RE: More Kony Shit
(26th March 2012 12:02)Tiberius Wrote:  They already give millions of dollars to useful causes. Yes, money is also spent on getting the message out, but can you really argue that it hasn't been extremely effective? Charity is great, but a charity that is virtually unknown will not get enough donations to do anything.

I'll stand corrected when their 'campaign' can be shown to be responsible, even in part, for the arrest and trial of Kony. I just don't expect it to happen - If anyone actually does find the guy and arrest him it sure as hell won't be the US government, it will be the Ugandan government, and it won't be because of this Kony2012 bollocks.

Maybe if they were running a campaign to hire a mercenary group to track him down and detain him I'd be impressed, that could actually get the job done.

Quote:As I said before, if you think that we should just ignore war criminals because they have no power anymore, then you are welcome to hold that opinion.

I never said anything remotely like it, I just said this campaign isn't going to achieve it thus it's a waste of money that will do little more than get the organisers a few nice 1st class flights and some dinners with George Clooney while also making a couple of mechanise producers quite rich.

Quote:I personally think people who commit crimes should be prosecuted, period. We still hunt down and convict Nazi war criminals. Time or loss of power is no reason to give up or not care about previously committed atrocities.

No there isn't a reason to give up, but neither does it make a viral video and a billboard campaign a reasonable solution to the problem.

Explain to me Adrian, how exactly do you see this campaign being effective in bringing about the arrest of Kony?
(26th March 2012 15:48)LastPoet Wrote:  Regarding this campaign or any other, I do sometimes wonder why people spend so much time shooting them down. If you don't agree with the campaign, its fine, put your money where you see fit.

Why? Because they believe it's a waste of charitable dollars that could be used much more effectively.

Sure, they're free to put their money where they like but that doesn't make it unreasonable to try and point out what a complete and utter waste it is. If you really believe there is something wrong with this approach I should hope I never see you arguing against tithing or any other money-wasting bullshit, least you want to be a hypocrite.

Quote:But investing time and effort undermining the efforts of others seem to be a hobby to many people.

It's no more of a 'hobby' than it is for the people who are 'undermining' the efforts of certain evangelical Christians to build a massive Ark themed funpark.

Quote:I mean, look at that, some guy wasted his time doing a video, instead of doing something useful. Don't agree with kony2012 and/or any other campaign? Okay, just go do some LOLcats or somethin, not a problem for me.

And thunderfoot 'wasted his time' making videos about the banana man instead of doing something useful. I guess he should have done some LOLcats too?

Oh wait, he thought it was useful to demonstrate how stupid Ray Comfort is, the same applies here, these people who are against the Kony2012 campaign are making videos about it precisely because they believe it is a waste of time and money.

Quote:You have to wonder why these people feel the need to demand where other people put their donation money.

Demanded? What a crock.

Quote:And really, I'd wrater see grafitty and/or posters of people fighting a good cause than the usual numbskull ones we have right now done by some hip-hop wannabe.

They're both equally as pointless and equally as reprehensible, they can stick posters on their own damn property to their hearts content but instead they are advocating large-scale graffiti that is going to take the owners of the properties hours to clean up while achieving absolutely nothing of worth.
(26th March 2012 17:09)Shell B Wrote:  People do realize that the situation in the DRC is such that Kony could easily replenish his numbers, right?

Oh obviously, he's clearly just decided to stay a broke, impoverished hasbeen when he could easily become a powerful warlord again!

(26th March 2012 19:34)Tiberius Wrote:  Ok, apparently you were serious.

War with Uganda (or any other country) is not mentioned at all in the video, nor is it the point of the video. A war with Iran has been on the cards for years, and I fail to see how a video about Uganda (an African country) is going to make people support a war with Iran (a Middle Eastern country). Not only is there the massive geographical difference, but the entire point of the video is to bring one man and his small band of militants to justice at the International Criminal Court (hence why the ICC is featured in the film). It is not about a military invasion of another country; it is about having the military of non-Ugandan countries help the Ugandan army get rid of one of their worst war criminals. This is more of a peace-keeping mission than anything else, and I'm in complete favour of missions where we don't use our armies to kill innocent civillians, but instead use them to hunt down known criminals and bring them to justice.

Also, this guy claims to have been on YouTube for 2 years, and yet he doesn't think it's possible for a video like this to get 40 million views in a couple of days? Pull the other one. Social media is extremely powerful; there is a reason why so many companies now hire people just to visit reddit or twitter all day. This kind of stuff travels very quickly on the Internet.

Sorry, but my bullshit alarms went off when he started going on about CIA conspiracies.

Yeah that video was complete horse-shit.
(26th March 2012 21:09)Tiberius Wrote:  1) Video sheds light on injustice that most people are unaware of.
2) Millions of people watch video.
3) Millions of people are now aware of injustice, and demand something is done about it.
4) Government listens to will of people (rare, I know, but it happens) and does something.

Here's something just as plausible:

1) Video sheds light on injustice that most people are unaware of.
2) Millions of people watch video.
3) Kony sees the video.
4) Kony feels guilty and turns himself in.
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27th March 2012, 06:48
Post: #27
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RE: More Kony Shit
(27th March 2012 06:06)theVOID Wrote:  Oh obviously, he's clearly just decided to stay a broke, impoverished hasbeen when he could easily become a powerful warlord again!

How do you know he is impoverished? How do you know how many men he has? The U.S. military can't even find him.

At any rate, we don't know his precise movements or this would not even be a problem. Furthermore, he doesn't need to be a powerful warlord to continue what he is doing or join up with other rebel groups. Let's not forget that both factions in the Rwandan Genocide are in the DRC. Refugees from the and perpetrators of the Darfurian Genocide are there are as well. Then, you have Ugandan douchebags, Congolese douchebags and any number of other douchebags. Say you have six gangs in one area and one happens to be smaller than it has been in the past, do you assume that it will not get new recruits? Do you choose to let past indiscretions slide because the gang has gotten smaller? The DRC isn't exactly somewhere I want Kony or any other of those douchebags hanging out. It is certainly possible that he is still very much active. It would be foolish to just ignore him and assume otherwise simply because nobody sees him. He wouldn't be very good at what he does if people just saw him strolling around with 500 guys.
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27th March 2012, 14:46 (This post was last modified: 27th March 2012 14:46 by Napoléon.)
Post: #28
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RE: More Kony Shit
(27th March 2012 06:06)theVOID Wrote:  Yeah that video was complete horse-shit.

Mostly horse-shit yeah, not completely.
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27th March 2012, 20:24 (This post was last modified: 27th March 2012 20:28 by paintpooper.)
Post: #29
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RE: More Kony Shit
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27th March 2012, 20:26
Post: #30
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RE: More Kony Shit
(27th March 2012 20:24)paintpooper Wrote:  READ.

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