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Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
4th April 2012, 21:28
Post: #31
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
With regards to the issue of protecting wildlife as a whole, this is usually the point where evolutionists and creationists put their differences aside and work together to protect endangered species from extinction. I guess elunico13 isn't in the same boat here. >.>


(4th April 2012 18:59)Paul the Human Wrote:  Empathy is the reason most people want to prevent an entire species from going extinct.
I concur.

After all, it motivates dolphins to rescue drowning swimmers and protect others from being eaten by sharks. ^_^
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4th April 2012, 21:57 (This post was last modified: 4th April 2012 22:04 by Chuck.)
Post: #32
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
Fundamentally, there is nothing contradictory whatsoever between human intervention to protect species, and the understanding that species have evolved into more or less their present form under the selection pressure of "survival of the fittest".

At its core it has nothing to do with empathy, although empathy can superficially seem like a tangential reason.

Fundamentally, we are part of the natural world in which other species operate, and out selection is part of the selection pressure they face in the "survival of the fittest". Those other species supports a ecosystem that has also been part of the natural world in which we operate, and they have been part of the selection pressure we humans have faced, and continue to face, in our "survival of the fittest".
Natural selection through interaction of other species is certainly continuing to shape us through survival of the fittest in the most profound ways in all aspects of our world - politics, demography, epidemiology.

If you don't think our social, economic, and biological evolution is ongoing in modern era and continue to be shaped by other species, ask yourself why American civil war waged a crossed the Mason Dixon line, which happen to mark the boundary between the warmer regions in the south in which malaria easily transmits through mosquitos, and cooler regions in the North where malaria has a difficult time spreading by mosquito; while taking into consideration the war was waged over slavery, and black africans are genetically much more resistant to malaria compared to whites, and thus enjoy competitive advantage over whites as heavy day labor in mosquito infested south, but no such advantage in the North, thus slavery south of mason dixon line, free states north of it.

We like to make good use all of the good tools in our arsenal, include our brains, technology, and probably not bibles and fundamentalists, to allow use to most easily survive through reasonable stability in our established social, economic and biological order.

This means protecting species which either directly and indirectly shaped our established social, economic and biological order.

Species evolve in response to whatever dictates the survival advantages of their various traits. We like to keep the benefits of such traits which, in the presence of the ecosystem and species we've laboriously adopted ourselves over the millenniums, had been advantageous to us. This means keeping the eco system we adapted to intact. we like to keep species around that supported the ecological systems we've laborious adapted to.

Species evolve according to survival of that which is the fittest to the environment, we protect species useful to our ecosystem by shaping environment such that the existing traits of useful species makes them fit.

To assert a contradiction is a to grab at a straw of ignorance.
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4th April 2012, 22:09
Post: #33
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 18:24)elunico13 Wrote:  By doing this they are contradicting their beliefs about natural selection, but so much time, money and effort goes into these projects. Could it be a reason contrary to what they believe? I think so.

I hesitate to take you seriously, having been recently burned on that sort of thing; but natural selection isn't a prescription, it's a description. Canada is cold in the winter, it doesn't follow that we should do nothing to stay warm. Natural selection is what happens when some creatures survive to breed and others don't, it's not some dictate we have to follow.

Accepting that natural selection occurs does not mean you have to make that your basis for interacting with other species.
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4th April 2012, 22:30
Post: #34
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 20:51)Paul the Human Wrote:  
(4th April 2012 20:47)elunico13 Wrote:  It's a bird, It's a plane... NO its Mr. Evolution coming to save the cows!

I give up. You have no idea what you are talking about and I don't have the time or the inclination to explain to you how the Big Bang, or evolution through natural selection actually works. Do some research and learn something, rather than spewing a bunch of ignorance around in public. I'm embarrassed for you.

LOL! I don't think you could if you tried, which would put you in the same category as everyone else.
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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4th April 2012, 22:31
Post: #35
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
Did you just admit that no one could teach you about evolution or the big bang? Are you saying you are too closed minded?
"It could be a miracle. It could be bullshit. The one thing we do know for sure is that it's a goddamn goldmine." - Frank, from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
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4th April 2012, 22:32
Post: #36
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 22:30)elunico13 Wrote:  LOL! I don't think you could if you tried, which would put you in the same category as everyone else.

Nobody could explain it to you because you would refuse to understand.
"The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can’t do." - Captain Jack Sparrow

“If I don't know I don't know, I think I know. If I don't know I know, I think I don't know.” - R. D. Laing
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4th April 2012, 22:38
Post: #37
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 18:24)elunico13 Wrote:  By doing this they are contradicting their beliefs about natural selection, but so much time, money and effort goes into these projects. Could it be a reason contrary to what they believe? I think so.

All this is built on the presupposition that evolution is predicated on human actions. Natural selection is the dominant force propelling evolution in natural environments, not artifical recreations as in zoos. Any situation involving human intervention in species' survival is by definition the opposite of natural selection, except by way of the fact that humans are themselves the product of nature.

To assert that natural selection is a belief system of "evolutionists" is plain silly by itself, but to compound that with a triumphal claim that this belief must not be supportable because of all the money funnelled into saving endangered species is true tinfoil hat conspiracy territory. How about all the gravitationists spending vast sums of money so they can fly about in big metal birds? Could it be a reason contrary to what they believe? I think so.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the Big Bang. In fact, since it's nothing to do with evolution anyway, best not to mention it in this context at all.

I look forward to seeing none of this addressed in your reply.
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Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

Remember, if we don't sin, poor old Jesus died for nothing.
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4th April 2012, 22:42
Post: #38
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 22:32)Insanity x Wrote:  
(4th April 2012 22:30)elunico13 Wrote:  LOL! I don't think you could if you tried, which would put you in the same category as everyone else.

Nobody could explain it to you because you would refuse to understand.

He did not refuse. He lacks the ability. That's why he is christian.
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4th April 2012, 22:47 (This post was last modified: 4th April 2012 22:56 by elunico13.)
Post: #39
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
(4th April 2012 20:56)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:  
(4th April 2012 20:43)elunico13 Wrote:  Lots of contradictions here:
How does "natural selection" give us a duty to save endangered species?

I didn't make that claim. I did make the claim that in some cases, it is in our self-interest to do so (e.g. if the food chain collapses, it puts our future in jeopardy).

Quote:Is self-interest just a cover-up term for emotions? It seems to be so.

No, self-interest is self-interest, in terms of our potential for future survivability of our species.

Quote:How does evolution give justification for what is and isn't destructive behavior?

It doesn't claim to.

Pick a subject you know something about next time, please.

Let me be more specific than. Where do YOU find justification to decide what is and isn't destructive behavior?
(4th April 2012 22:38)Stimbo Wrote:  
(4th April 2012 18:24)elunico13 Wrote:  By doing this they are contradicting their beliefs about natural selection, but so much time, money and effort goes into these projects. Could it be a reason contrary to what they believe? I think so.

All this is built on the presupposition that evolution is predicated on human actions. Natural selection is the dominant force propelling evolution in natural environments, not artifical recreations as in zoos. Any situation involving human intervention in species' survival is by definition the opposite of natural selection, except by way of the fact that humans are themselves the product of nature.

To assert that natural selection is a belief system of "evolutionists" is plain silly by itself, but to compound that with a triumphal claim that this belief must not be supportable because of all the money funnelled into saving endangered species is true tinfoil hat conspiracy territory. How about all the gravitationists spending vast sums of money so they can fly about in big metal birds? Could it be a reason contrary to what they believe? I think so.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the Big Bang. In fact, since it's nothing to do with evolution anyway, best not to mention it in this context at all.

I look forward to seeing none of this addressed in your reply.

Your fellow comrades have contradictory statements to yours. Are you all right???
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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4th April 2012, 23:05
Post: #40
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RE: Why do evolutionists protect endagered species???
elunico13 Wrote:Your fellow comrades have contradictory statements to yours. Are you all right??

Nothing that Stimbo says contradicts anything anyone apart from you has said. No one has said natural selection is a belief system, we have said it is what happens. Actually read people's responses carefully, then you can see past what you want to see there and comprehend the point of the response.
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