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Good old redneck Tennessee
23rd April 2012, 23:51 (This post was last modified: 23rd April 2012 23:54 by Norfolk And Chance.)
Post: #21
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
A wristwatch won't change over millions of years because it is not alive - as it is not trying to avoid death it has no reason to try and change, and of course no mechanism to implement that change - such as functioning genes and the ability to reproduce and pass down the most suitable genes for it's environment.

But you knew that anyway, right?
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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24th April 2012, 00:00
Post: #22
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(23rd April 2012 23:41)deciple Wrote:  evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

Gravity is a theory, you willing to walk off a 20 story building because it isn't a "fact"? A scientific theory is a fact. To paraphrase the late Stephen Gould, there is so much evidence for evolution, only a perverse mind could deny it.
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24th April 2012, 00:48 (This post was last modified: 24th April 2012 00:48 by padraic.)
Post: #23
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

Oh dear,another one.A common mistake made by young earth creationist loons.

Evolution is a fact. The THEORY of evolution is an explanation of empirical data. .For goodness sake go way and do some reading,your ignorance embarrasses you.


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Quote:In scientific usage, the term "theory" is reserved for explanations of phenomena which meet basic requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains. These requirements vary across different scientific fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena. Such theories are constructed from elementary assumptions that are motivated by empirical data about observable phenomena. A scientific theory is used as a plausible general principle or body of principles offered to explain a phenomenon.[7]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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24th April 2012, 00:54
Post: #24
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(24th April 2012 00:48)padraic Wrote:  
Quote:evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

Oh dear,another one.A common mistake made by young earth creationist loons.

Evolution is a fact. The THEORY of evolution is an explanation of empirical data. .For goodness sake go way and do some reading,your ignorance embarrasses you.

Yes, evolution is a fact and evolution is only one part of the theory of evolution. Thing is, even if there were no evidence for natural selection, speciation, common ancestry, non-selective mechanisms (like genetic drift), etc..., evolution would still occur and as it was so eloquently put by Stephen Gould only a perverse mind could deny it.
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24th April 2012, 01:00
Post: #25
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(23rd April 2012 23:41)deciple Wrote:  



How does this demonstrate why evolution needs to be taught? Isnt what I described evolution in a nutshell? if not where am I wrong? I can see your point that creationism is preaching in a labcoat, however evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

It demonstrates the need for teaching the subject because your description of it does for evolution what the Flintstones did for history. If that truly is your understanding of it, then I repeat, you're just plain factually wrong. To get you started, consider that no species alive today is the ancestor of any other species alive today.

As for that last part: how about you explain what a theory is in a scientific context and we'll tell you if you win. There may be a prize as well (sorry, no cash alternatives).
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

Remember, if we don't sin, poor old Jesus died for nothing.
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24th April 2012, 03:23
Post: #26
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(24th April 2012 00:48)padraic Wrote:  
Quote:evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

Oh dear,another one.A common mistake made by young earth creationist loons.

Evolution is a fact. The THEORY of evolution is an explanation of empirical data. .For goodness sake go way and do some reading,your ignorance embarrasses you.


00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000​00000000000000000


Quote:In scientific usage, the term "theory" is reserved for explanations of phenomena which meet basic requirements about the kinds of empirical observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of the class to which it pertains. These requirements vary across different scientific fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena. Such theories are constructed from elementary assumptions that are motivated by empirical data about observable phenomena. A scientific theory is used as a plausible general principle or body of principles offered to explain a phenomenon.[7]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

Dear padraic, are you serious? So we have differing opinions on a particular subject and all of a sudden im a loon? go away and do some reading? really.Shock I stand in awe of your gigantic brain oh wait...thats just your head. Its also amazing that you can tell me what embarrasses me. The fact that you claim im ignorant while im trying to seek knowlege tells me that you ride a pretty big high horse good sir. Your arrogance SHOULD embarrass you. Im simply trying to get some answers i may not have just yet. I still love ya man. I realize this kind of stuff can get heated sometimes but im not your enemy here. we just disagree on something.. no biggie right. peace.
God sends the rain on the just and the unjust
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24th April 2012, 03:36
Post: #27
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:Dear padraic, are you serious?

He is indeed serious and you are a fucking moron.
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24th April 2012, 05:04 (This post was last modified: 24th April 2012 05:15 by padraic.)
Post: #28
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:Dear padraic, are you serious? So we have differing opinions on a particular subject and all of a sudden I'm a loon?


Not "at all of a sudden". IF you are a young earth creationist, you were a 'loon' (euphemism for ignorant fool) when you first came here.


I simply wasn't aware until you posted "evolution is not a fact, it's a theory" . I suggested you go away and do some reading because you are trying to argue from a position of appalling ignorance.

There is not now,nor has there ever been a debate between evolution and young earth creationism.

Evolution has been established as fact for over a century through the rigorous application of scientific method. It is being constantly re-verified by ongoing discoveries about the human genome and DNA generally.


Creationism is a religious doctrine unsupported by ANY credible evidence,it is based on faith alone, an argument from incredulity. IE" I am too ignorant,too unimaginative or too stupid to think of anything else, therefore God/aliens did it"


Quote:but I'm not your enemy here.

Nor am yours.So what? .I don't know you well enough to elevate you to that rarefied status. I'm attacking the stupid things you've posted,which make you seem as hopeless as one our resident village idiots.
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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24th April 2012, 05:57
Post: #29
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
YEC is fantasy.

Evolution is reality.
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24th April 2012, 15:18
Post: #30
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(23rd April 2012 03:07)deciple Wrote:  i do not believe that one animal can ever turn into another animal.


You're right! An animal can never turn into another animal. For example, a land dwelling mammal can't turn into a sea dwelling mammal. However, over time, the progeny of a land dwelling mammal can evolve into sea dwelling mammals. Check out the evolution of the whale.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary...vograms_03

Quote:The way i understand evolution is that out of nothing some kind of single celled organisim sprang

Then you don't understand evolution. What you are referring to here is abiogenesis. Evolution says nothing about how life came about. It only deals with what happened once life sprang up.

Quote: then from that we get monkeys and they turned into people.

Wrong again. People did not evolve from monkeys. We have a common ancestor.

Quote:If that is true wouldnt it be possible to take something that already functions such as a wristwatch and send it off to a distant planet that resembles the conditions here on earth and have some kind of mars rover put it in the dirt and over millions of years shouldnt it turn into something?

This is such a stupid straw man that I can't believe someone would even conceive of it. But I did have some idiots knock on my door one day and argue with me about evolution. They asked if I would expect my car to evolve into something else after a couple of million years. I guess you guys are reading from the same playbook.

Quote:No it will still be a wristwatch in the dirt. The watch is made up of inanimate matter

Correct!A watch cannot possibly evolve into anything because it is not alive and it can't reproduce!

Quote:just like the matter that single celled organisms supposedly evolved from

And we're back to mixing up evolution with abiogenesis.

Quote:but the watch already has moving working parts

THAT AREN'T ALIVE!

Yeesh!

Quote:it just seems very unlikely that life could just come from unorganic matter floating around in the water or soil.

You know what seems "very unlikely"? The notion that an invisible man living in the sky created the universe and everything in it.

Quote:Can somebody help me to understand this point of view please?

Well, I just tried, but somehow I doubt it will sink in.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.

God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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