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Good old redneck Tennessee
24th April 2012, 17:38
Post: #31
Best Member 2012! 20k+ posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:Well, I just tried, but somehow I doubt it will sink in.

Truer words were never spoken.
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Kudos given by (1): Stimbo
25th April 2012, 02:50
Post: #32
    2 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(23rd April 2012 23:51)Norfolk And Chance Wrote:  A wristwatch won't change over millions of years because it is not alive - as it is not trying to avoid death it has no reason to try and change, and of course no mechanism to implement that change - such as functioning genes and the ability to reproduce and pass down the most suitable genes for it's environment.

But you knew that anyway, right?

yes norfolk and chance i knew that. did you assume I didnt? I did assume that some would not know that. It still seems more likely that the watch could "come to life" more likely then from any other form of base inorganic particle that hadnt formed any kind of bond at all which is not trying to avoid death. Again, if in the beginning the earth was void of any kind of life.. no functioning genes or ability to reproduce as you put it. Nothing has any reason to try and change. Then why did it start?
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25th April 2012, 02:59
Post: #33
  11k posts! 3 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Try this:

'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

Remember, if we don't sin, poor old Jesus died for nothing.
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25th April 2012, 02:59
Post: #34
    2 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(24th April 2012 03:36)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:Dear padraic, are you serious?

He is indeed serious and you are a fucking moron.

Ah, another "tolerant" atheist. What a "free thinker" I guess you are only free to think about things you consider "fact" there is no way you could ever be wrong i suppose. What a joke. You make me laugh. ROFLOL
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25th April 2012, 03:15
Post: #35
Best Member 2012! 20k+ posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(25th April 2012 02:59)deciple Wrote:  
(24th April 2012 03:36)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:Dear padraic, are you serious?

He is indeed serious and you are a fucking moron.

Ah, another "tolerant" atheist. What a "free thinker" I guess you are only free to think about things you consider "fact" there is no way you could ever be wrong i suppose. What a joke. You make me laugh. ROFLOL

Listen, asswipe, I do not claim to be tolerant. It is not my job to make idiots like you feel better about yourself or your fucking god.

Either learn something about evolution or give it up because you sound like a fucking moron.

Are we clear about how things stand now?
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25th April 2012, 04:45
Post: #36
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RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:Ah, another "tolerant" atheist

Dear Deciple:

From whence did you get the quaint notion that atheist make ANY claims as a group? Min behaves as he does because he's an old prick who happens to an an atheist, not BECAUSE he is an atheist.

An atheist is simply a person who does not believe in gods. Some of us are pleasant,affable,some are belligerent and obnoxious,some are tolerant,some are intolerant,some are kind,generous and compassionate,some are complete arseholes. In short,as a group,we are just ordinary humans, with the same virtues an vices as any other human beings, including believers of all kinds.

I have never claimed to be tolerant,or meant to imply such a thing,except that I have far managed not to set fire to anyone towards whom I am especially intolerant. I am especially intolerant of the willfully ignorant and fools. That tends to include most of the religious apologists who insist on inflicting themselves on atheists forums. Nothing personal you understand, I don't know these people and have no ill will. I respond only to the drivel they post which tends to be an insult to a rational person. I make no apologies.
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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25th April 2012, 04:52 (This post was last modified: 25th April 2012 05:17 by Creed of Heresy.)
Post: #37
  2k posts! 2 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
I am of the belligerent, obnoxious, generous asshole variety. Big Grin
To point out, deciple: If the atheists here on this forum seem twitchy and prone to going "FOR FUCK'S SAKE, ARE YOU DAFT?!" when you ask a question we've all probably answered a dozen times [in the last week alone], you have to understand; repeating oneself over and over again tends to induce stress, ire, and frustration. I in particular am very prone to flipping my shit when I have to explain something that is basically elemental levels of knowledge and understanding for anyone of average intelligence, especially when I've had to do so about five times or so in very recent memory. Lately we've had a huge influx of people coming onto the forums saying that "evolution is not a fact, it's a THEORY" not even realizing that to say so is a self-contradictory statement. Theories ARE facts. They are accepted as facts, they have evidence and information gathered via empirical studies and through a lot of research to show that it is fact. I usually use the puzzle analogy: The hypothesis is the empty puzzle board. You have the box of puzzle pieces but you haven't really started to put anything up yet. You've spread the pieces out, now you're looking for the pieces to start with. Then comes the information gathering; you begin putting the pieces together, bit by bit. Ideas that are correct are pieces of the puzzle that fit together. Ideas that are not are the pieces that don't go in properly with the others, so they are set aside to be put up later, to connect to other pieces of data to complete the picture. Theory is the point at which you now have a very clear picture of the completed puzzle. The puzzle itself is not finished, but looking at the puzzle, you can see the picture. It's not whole, it's not complete, but it's at the point where the picture is visible. When something becomes scientific law, the puzzle is finished, complete, all pieces are put together and the puzzle is finished; there's nothing left to add to it. You can, of course, touch up the puzzle; pieces may have faded and need to be re-inked or colored a bit to properly make the picture look absolutely perfect, which is an analogy to information coming in later that augments or slightly changes the pieces ever so slightly. But ultimately, that picture is done, everything else is just little details there to make it look even nicer.

The theory of evolution is a puzzle about 90% done. Now we're just looking for the puzzle pieces to fit into the remaining gaps, but the picture is there and we can see it. Creation theory and intelligent design, however, are the equivalent of a guy who has no puzzle pieces up, he hasn't even opened the box. He has just looked at the cover of the box and made up his own conjecture on how he thinks the puzzle pieces, that he has not seen, are going to go. He is uninformed about the puzzle beyond how it's going to look, or at least, how he THINKS it's going to look. And to teach creationism as a valid school of thought in schools is to basically take the two people, one with his nearly finished puzzle and the other with his conjectures and what he "believes" the puzzle should and will be, and put them together and say that the guy who hasn't even bothered to open the box, and instead is just making shit up based on his own unfounded speculation, is just as valid on the subject of putting this puzzle together as the guy who has spent a ton of time actually putting these pieces together is.

Make sense now?
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Reason, not superstition. Ethics, not dogma. Respect, not worship. Courage, not fear. Fact, not myth. Morality, not religion. Clarity, not delusion. Good, not god. Skeptic, not cynic. Pragmatism, not ideology.
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26th April 2012, 00:10
Post: #38
    2 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(25th April 2012 04:52)Creed of Heresy Wrote:  I am of the belligerent, obnoxious, generous asshole variety. Big Grin
To point out, deciple: If the atheists here on this forum seem twitchy and prone to going "FOR FUCK'S SAKE, ARE YOU DAFT?!" when you ask a question we've all probably answered a dozen times [in the last week alone], you have to understand; repeating oneself over and over again tends to induce stress, ire, and frustration. I in particular am very prone to flipping my shit when I have to explain something that is basically elemental levels of knowledge and understanding for anyone of average intelligence, especially when I've had to do so about five times or so in very recent memory. Lately we've had a huge influx of people coming onto the forums saying that "evolution is not a fact, it's a THEORY" not even realizing that to say so is a self-contradictory statement. Theories ARE facts. They are accepted as facts, they have evidence and information gathered via empirical studies and through a lot of research to show that it is fact. I usually use the puzzle analogy: The hypothesis is the empty puzzle board. You have the box of puzzle pieces but you haven't really started to put anything up yet. You've spread the pieces out, now you're looking for the pieces to start with. Then comes the information gathering; you begin putting the pieces together, bit by bit. Ideas that are correct are pieces of the puzzle that fit together. Ideas that are not are the pieces that don't go in properly with the others, so they are set aside to be put up later, to connect to other pieces of data to complete the picture. Theory is the point at which you now have a very clear picture of the completed puzzle. The puzzle itself is not finished, but looking at the puzzle, you can see the picture. It's not whole, it's not complete, but it's at the point where the picture is visible. When something becomes scientific law, the puzzle is finished, complete, all pieces are put together and the puzzle is finished; there's nothing left to add to it. You can, of course, touch up the puzzle; pieces may have faded and need to be re-inked or colored a bit to properly make the picture look absolutely perfect, which is an analogy to information coming in later that augments or slightly changes the pieces ever so slightly. But ultimately, that picture is done, everything else is just little details there to make it look even nicer.

The theory of evolution is a puzzle about 90% done. Now we're just looking for the puzzle pieces to fit into the remaining gaps, but the picture is there and we can see it. Creation theory and intelligent design, however, are the equivalent of a guy who has no puzzle pieces up, he hasn't even opened the box. He has just looked at the cover of the box and made up his own conjecture on how he thinks the puzzle pieces, that he has not seen, are going to go. He is uninformed about the puzzle beyond how it's going to look, or at least, how he THINKS it's going to look. And to teach creationism as a valid school of thought in schools is to basically take the two people, one with his nearly finished puzzle and the other with his conjectures and what he "believes" the puzzle should and will be, and put them together and say that the guy who hasn't even bothered to open the box, and instead is just making shit up based on his own unfounded speculation, is just as valid on the subject of putting this puzzle together as the guy who has spent a ton of time actually putting these pieces together is.

Make sense now?

If there is one thing ive learned it is to only reply to one, mabye two people at a time haha. Very time consuming to attempt with 8 or 9 people at a time. And I am learning quite a bit here.

Stimbo- very informative video you put up. im no chemist or biologist and dont claim to be. Ill probably watch that a few more times to make sure i can grasp as much of it as i can. Honestly its still hard to accept that all that complex chemistry, biology and other sciences ive probably never heard of could just happen by chance. There is no way to know what the conditions of earth were in the beginning. Or where this process began. Thank you for your contribution. A little kindness goes a long way with people.

Padraic- I guess i was just kind of caught off guard. Christians are labeled as intolerant, narrow minded and you know the rest of our reputation. Your right, every group is made up of various kinds of people. I just did not expect the level of intolerance to be as high as it is within the atheist community or at least on this forum. I have athiest friends that I socialize with on a regular basis. One of the big turn offs they tell me is because they will not be a part of a group that is known for its hate. Its just ironic to me. No hard feelings man.

Creed- thank you for explaining that out for me. It makes MUCH more sense when you put it like that. When i look at it from the perspective of its the 1st time im having this conversation but its probably the 900th time you have had it, I can begin to see how it could become taxing on somebody. Have patience i beg you, if you cant tell im here to get a different point of view, to broaden my horizions so to speak.

Minimalist- Sir, what can I possibly say to such an intelligent retort. Where did you get the idea that I need you to make me feel better about myself? Between the two of us it may just be you thats lacking in the self esteem department. It almost seems as if I have devolved into a Saint benard and you have become my insufferable dog pecker gnat. good day.
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26th April 2012, 00:15
Post: #39
Best Member 2012! 20k+ posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
Quote:Min behaves as he does because he's an old prick who happens to an an atheist, not BECAUSE he is an atheist.


God damn right, Paddy.


And, asswipe, go read Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth and maybe ( doubtful) you'll stop making a fool of yourself everytime you post.
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26th April 2012, 00:37 (This post was last modified: 26th April 2012 01:27 by Stimbo.)
Post: #40
  11k posts! 3 years membership!
RE: Good old redneck Tennessee
(26th April 2012 00:10)deciple Wrote:  Stimbo- very informative video you put up. im no chemist or biologist and dont claim to be. Ill probably watch that a few more times to make sure i can grasp as much of it as i can. Honestly its still hard to accept that all that complex chemistry, biology and other sciences ive probably never heard of could just happen by chance. There is no way to know what the conditions of earth were in the beginning. Or where this process began. Thank you for your contribution. A little kindness goes a long way with people.

If it helps, get rid of the notion that things absent a god had to happen by chance. You may live a mile away from the post office, but just because the idea of leaping there in a single bound may be ludicrously impossible doesn't mean you can never go there. It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Things may be complex today but that doesn't mean they've always been that way. To borrow from your post, complex chemistry develops from simple chemistry. Likewise biology.

Finally, it is not true that we can't know the conditions of the early Earth. We may not know exactly what was going on in every detail but this is a universe away from saying we know nothing at all, or that it's all guesswork. As for where this process began, that's largely immaterial. Anyway, most of this is covered in the video.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens

Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come and save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris. Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

Remember, if we don't sin, poor old Jesus died for nothing.
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