Good old redneck Tennessee

[Creed of Heresy]

Aye. You caught me at a point, a rare one indeed, actually, where I am fairly patient. My patience is a fickle thing and oftentimes lacking. If it even exists at all.

The common misconception is that there seems to be "no point" to change and evolution. But au contraire! Think of it like a biological arms race. Among the very few constants in the universe are destruction, and the progression of time. An organism will want to survive as long as possible, no matter its level of intellect. This is the basic principle of life; the desire to want to keep living, because without life, there is nothing. If this were represented as a mathematical equivalent, sentience and sapience, like what we humans have, would be the calculaic theorum, the blackboard-consuming equation that even the professor isn't quite sure the answer he put is entirely correct, and this basic concept of life wanting to live is 1. Not plus or minus...just...1. It is the first step above nothing and therefore where life begins. Now, evolution is just the process of adaptation to better cope with the environment, to better survive it, and eventually comes competition between the organisms that survived the basic challenge of environment. You then have active competition, which fosters far more need for adaptation. Far more organisms die out in this stage, but the ones that survive continue to advance, fighting their arms race. Those that fall behind die off, those that survive become ever more advanced and specialized.

One of the most amusingly shortsighted things that people say to this is "that seems far too unbelievable that against all odds everything just so happened to result in us." Indeed, it might seem that way, but you have to understand that the odds of ANYTHING being born is a tremendous victory against the odds. A single human being's birth resulting in that person becoming who and what they are is essentially defeating odds 1:100,000,000,000,000,000+ if you consider all the environmental, physical, and emotional inputs. The universe is essentially almost random chance. And if things had happened ever so slightly differently in the past, well...we might not even be here. Consider the Burgess Shale. [If you do not know, look it up; it's a tremendous archaeological find that basically shows that if one particular primordial creature had died off 145,000,000 years ago, humanity would not be around today]

Truth be told we beat long odds with everything we do every day. No need to attribute this to a higher power other than the universe itself; it's natural that we should beat those odds. Someone has to win the lottery eventually, after all, same goes for us.

When you really sit down and think about stuff like this, it starts to make a lot of sense. Look up educational resources online from biological research institutes [try to avoid ones that openly proclaim a connection to ANY kind of religious institution as they tend to have a bias; no worries, no genuine research institute will ever claim affiliation with any atheist communities even if they all were atheists themselves, REAL scientists have a higher calling than their own emotional desires [[consider Darwin for example]]], and if I may, I would suggest looking up Into The Universe With Stephen Hawking. It's on Netflix, if you have it, or you can look it up on the Discovery channel or youtube. Professor Hawking does a wonderful job of concisely and accurately explaining the concept of the beginning of the universe and admits the points where human knowledge and understanding comes up short for the time being, and he does it with a cheerfulness you can only really find from someone who is thrilled with the pursuit of knowledge for the sake of the pursuit itself.

If you find yourself questioning your beliefs, trust me when I say, it'll be a terrifying experience at first, but if you don't run back to the shelter of faith and instead decide to poke your head out a bit further to look around at the universe in all its genuine majesty, trust me as well when I say that the woefully limited imaginations of pre-medieval men will never compare to what science has to offer. It'll be like taking your first sip of of a ripened vintage wine after a lifetime of drinking kool-aid; the taste may at first be unpleasant at its implications but keep an open mind and take a few more sips and you begin to appreciate the depth of the flavor.

Me and my analogies...

[Kayenneh]

(23rd April 2012 03:07)deciple Wrote:  I believe that one species can indeed evolve within its own species such as a raptor like an eagle can develop better eyesight over a period of time or a tree can develop a resistance to a particular type of insect over time, however i do not believe that one animal can ever turn into another animal. The way i understand evolution is that out of nothing some kind of single celled organisim sprang and then that evolved into a two celled organism then that eventually turned into a fish, the fish turned into a lizard the lizard branched off and turned into a bird and a mammal and then from that we get monkeys and they turned into people.

Ok, Deciple, I want to show you a picture of the tree of life.



Now, as you can see, the general idea is that lizards and mammals do origin from fish-related creatures. However, the lizard did not branch off and became a mammal, as you can see mammals evolved earlier on than reptilians. I think you see evolution linearly, but that's not the case. We have a base, and from there all different lifeforms spring forth and over a looooong period of time.

I mean, just look at us humans. See on the tree how high up we are in the canopy? That means that we as a species are fairly new, yet, evolution can be seen among our own kind. For instance, sickle-cell anemia, which is a life threatening condition, is actually beneficial to have in areas with malaria. The parasite can't reproduce in the sickle shaped blood cell, so it is a desirable trait to have even though it's dangerous. Evolution is based upon the principle that when you have the right set of genes in the right environment, you'll thrive.

[Stimbo]

Here's a more detailed version of that tree showing common names of the major groups:



and a rather more detailed, scalable version:

http://www.zo.utexas.edu/faculty/antisense/tree.pdf

If you prefer something more hands-on, try this interactive version with links, photographs, range maps and lots of other information:

http://www.discoverlife.org/20/m/?tree=L...b=WHF_LIFE

[Jaysyn]

(23rd April 2012 23:41)deciple Wrote:  How does this demonstrate why evolution needs to be taught? Isnt what I described evolution in a nutshell? if not where am I wrong? I can see your point that creationism is preaching in a labcoat, however evolution is not a fact. It is a theory.

That's a very, very stupid statement. It shows the depths of your ignorance in regards to science.

The word you are grasping for & failing is hypothesis.

I guess that is to be expected from someone that can even spell their forum nickname correctly.

Stupid is as stupid does.

---

(24th April 2012 03:23)deciple Wrote:  So we have differing opinions on a particular subject and all of a sudden im a loon?

Oh dear. You don't know what the word opinion means either apparently.

[Kayenneh]

Deciple, what I think people are trying to tell you is: you are free to question. But when you do, be prepared with decent counter-arguments and give objective facts for your side. Otherwise your opinion is just that, an opinion. And what more, just plain wrong.

[Minimalist]

All he's got is "goddidit". Kay.

In his circles he has been taught that such a foolish statement is sufficient.

And then he wonders why it is imperative to keep creationist horseshit out of our classrooms!

[jess_essential]

Creationism is just a silly concept. The fact that it was even integrated into educational environments prior to now, is inconcievable. The point is that we are a SECULAR NATION and should absolutely not have any form of religion in an educational atmosphere. What would it teach our children other than to carry their imaginary friends with them into their eighties? I dont know about you, but I happen to like walking with my feet firmly planted on the foundation of reality.

[Shell B]

Jess, all caps are not bolding.