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JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
#1
JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.

Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.


PERSON #1:
Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian

DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120

Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile

What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.

Highlights on Tacitus: A Roman historian who lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors, Tacitus has been called "the greatest historian of ancient Rome."



PERSON #2:
Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian

DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD

Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)

What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.

Highlights on Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died). He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels. Flavius Josephus belonged to the group of Jewish religious leaders--the Pharisees--responsible for Jesus' death.

Flavius Josephus joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74 AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to their side and ended up becoming the Roman emperor's Adviser on Jewish Affairs.



PERSON #3:
Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor

DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD

Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians

What He Said: Referred to Christ as a "god of the Christians."

Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.


DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1.
All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming his earthly existence?

2. Flavius Josephus, a Jew, was born a mere four years after Jesus was executed. He became a Jewish Pharisee as an adult, in addition to becoming a respected historian and advisor to the Roman emperor. Do you see anything significant to his being a Pharisee, a historian, and Roman emperor advisor--and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?

3. Cornelius Tactitus was known as the greatest historian of his time, during which he lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors. Do you see anything significant to his resume and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?

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#2
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
http://atheistforums.org/thread-10260-po...#pid269341

Take some time to read the forum a bit...and why not also take the time to introduce yourself instead of starting multiple threads.
Religion is not the answer-it is the problem. Everything considered, we would be better off without it.~Baubles of Blasphemy~Edwin F. Kagin

"Much better to have the ability to think critically, than the ability to quote scripture. One says you have a functioning mind. The other says you're a parrot." -- The Secular Buddhist
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#3
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
None of what you present is evidence that would be even considered by a court of law. And speaking of evidence, do you have any to prove your claim that Josephus was apathetic towards Christianity???
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#4
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
(April 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote:




Tacitus was most likely an interpolation by a Christian if not an outright forgery by one. You can search this forum for information or look it up yourself.

Josephus is a forgery and it was most likely by Eusebius.

Pliny The Younger as well as Suetonius (who you neglected to mention) are both written too late to distinguish between Christ and Christianity.

Major failure on your part. Wanna try again and I promise to hand you your fucking ass?
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#5
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
Quote:None of what you present is evidence that would be even considered by a court of law

Not to mention a real scholar.Cool Shades


Apologists like to overlook the simple fact that none of their evidence about Jesus meets the current standards of evidence demanded by historians.
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#6
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
(April 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm)Cinjin Wrote: None of what you present is evidence that would be even considered by a court of law. And speaking of evidence, do you have any to prove your claim that Josephus was apathetic towards Christianity???

Josephus belonged to the religious group called the Pharisees who were responsible for Jesus' death. He never became a Christian.
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#7
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
(April 13, 2012 at 11:45 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote:
(April 13, 2012 at 8:06 pm)Cinjin Wrote: None of what you present is evidence that would be even considered by a court of law. And speaking of evidence, do you have any to prove your claim that Josephus was apathetic towards Christianity???

Josephus belonged to the religious group called the Pharisees who were responsible for Jesus' death. He never became a Christian.


I'm well aware of the life of Josephus. I'm wondering where you get your information. Many people consider Josephus' work where JC is involved to be counterfeit. You know ... like he didn't even write it.
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#8
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
I was going to hand this asshole his head but you guys are off to a good start without me.

Keep up the good work.
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#9
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
awe Min ... don't bail because of me bro. I love reading your posts, especially where history is involved. Please don't hold back on the beheading because of me. Tongue
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#10
RE: JESUS CHRIST: Myth or Historical Person?
How come other gods such as Dionysis who made water into wine, or Mithras who bent Virgin Mary over are not considered worthy in the pedophilic Catholic church? Is it because Christianity is diabolicaly perverted from the very start? Fuck God, he is an obvious myth which we should dispense like used toilet paper.
You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.

There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.

Buddha FSM Grin



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