Ego vs Awareness/consciousness

[simplexity]

I just wandered what you guys thought about this article.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/09...awareness/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569494/
Awareness as the starting point agrees with the model in quantum theory which states that everything in our physical reality does not arise until it is perceived by an outside observer. It has always been a question for me whether our self/egos are only an illusion projected by the mind to better understand our awareness. In other words it just makes it easier for our limited minds to understand how to perceive and ego is not what actually defines us. Not that this quantum model is even close to the accepted model, but this was just interesting.

It seems to me from this starting point that everything is subjective to our perception and awareness including the ego itself.

[genkaus]

I just wandered what you guys thought about this article.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/09...awareness/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569494/
Awareness as the starting point agrees with the model in quantum theory which states that everything in our physical reality does not arise until it is perceived by an outside observer. It has always been a question for me whether our self/egos are only an illusion projected by the mind to better understand our awareness. In other words it just makes it easier for our limited minds to understand how to perceive and ego is not what actually defines us. Not that this quantum model is even close to the accepted model, but this was just interesting.

It seems to me from this starting point that everything is subjective to our perception and awareness including the ego itself.

Doubtful.

First of all, our understanding of quantum mechanics is nowhere near close enough to allow us to draw these conclusions.

Secondly, irrespective of the nature of our self/ego, I think it has been pretty well-established that a conscious observer is not required for determining the physical reality. As of now, searching for answers pertaining to ego and/or free will in quantum mechanic is pseudoscientific at best.

[simplexity]

I just wandered what you guys thought about this article.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/09...awareness/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569494/
Awareness as the starting point agrees with the model in quantum theory which states that everything in our physical reality does not arise until it is perceived by an outside observer. It has always been a question for me whether our self/egos are only an illusion projected by the mind to better understand our awareness. In other words it just makes it easier for our limited minds to understand how to perceive and ego is not what actually defines us. Not that this quantum model is even close to the accepted model, but this was just interesting.

It seems to me from this starting point that everything is subjective to our perception and awareness including the ego itself.

Doubtful.

First of all, our understanding of quantum mechanics is nowhere near close enough to allow us to draw these conclusions.

Secondly, irrespective of the nature of our self/ego, I think it has been pretty well-established that a conscious observer is not required for determining the physical reality. As of now, searching for answers pertaining to ego and/or free will in quantum mechanic is pseudoscientific at best.

It is very far fetched but it is an interesting claim that ego itself only arises from the perception itself and the reactions therein and is itself an illusion. Free-will is another matter entirely and this is another illusion for me. Not that being an illusion makes it less real or anything.

[frankiej]

That is fighting talk. My ego will kick the shit out of yours. Mine is bigger and more badass.

[simplexity]

My perception encompasses all and is somehow at the same time confused by what this ego thing is. Your ego is irrelevant.

[frankiej]

My ego is omnipotent.

[Neo-Scholastic]

From the abstract you linked:

“Neuropsychological research on the neural basis of behaviour generally posits that brain mechanisms will ultimately suffice to explain all psychologically described phenomena…

It is only right and proper for any scientific investigation to look into the physical mechanisms involved in mental processes, as long as they do not overreach. In this case the researchers appear to be advocating a very restrictive physicalist philosophy of mind in which ‘brain=mind’. I find such an approach valuable but inadequate to address the issue of felt experience and assert that some form of panpsychicim is more likely.

Panpsychism is the doctrine that mind is a fundamental feature of the world which exists throughout the universe. Broadly speaking, there are, at bottom, only two positions…panpsychism and emergentism. If one believes that the most fundamental physical entities…are devoid of any mental attributes, and if one also believes that some systems of these entities, such as human brains, do possess mental attributes, one is espousing some kind of doctrine of the emergence of mind.” – Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/)

The abstract also includes the following statement:

… terms having intrinsic mentalistic and/or experiential content (e.g. ‘feeling’, ‘knowing’ and ‘effort’) are not included as primary causal factors…

To my understanding effective cause only makes sense in temporal relationships above the quantum level. So it seems to me that the researchers have inappropriately carried over classical physic’s convenient fiction of ‘cause and effect’.

[Phil]

the model in quantum theory which states that everything in our physical reality does not arise until it is perceived by an outside observer

It seems like that article is using the outdated Copenhagen interpretation.

[jess_essential]

You see this all depends on what theory in psychology you're referring to. The concept of the "Ego" means many different things in psychology. Freud thought that the ego was a part of the brain that correlates with the Id and the super ego. Personally, I believe in the theory Freud came up with of the three parts of the subconscious mind working efficiently as a unit. But i also believe that the ego is our perception of ourselves and can easily be confused and dressed up as something else, if you will.

[simplexity]

My ego is omnipotent.

Maybe your ego is only a figment of my perceptions imagination.

the model in quantum theory which states that everything in our physical reality does not arise until it is perceived by an outside observer

It seems like that article is using the outdated Copenhagen interpretation.

Actually Phil it is not an outdated model as it is still only one of the possible models even today. We still don't know how to interpret wave/energy particle duality.

You could say the multiple universe model and the objective wave collapse models are more accepted but you can't say it's an outdated model. Here is an interesting article to read if you wish to know more about the different interpretations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretat...e_theories

You see this all depends on what theory in psychology you're referring to. The concept of the "Ego" means many different things in psychology. Freud thought that the ego was a part of the brain that correlates with the Id and the super ego. Personally, I believe in the theory Freud came up with of the three parts of the subconscious mind working efficiently as a unit. But i also believe that the ego is our perception of ourselves and can easily be confused and dressed up as something else, if you will.

For me I tend to think of ego as only the perception of self. Perception itself is first "reaction" you get and is the true consciousness. Only later do you get a understanding of an ego in your mind. It makes since because first you perceive and then your mind reacts.

To my understanding effective cause only makes sense in temporal relationships above the quantum level. So it seems to me that the researchers have inappropriately carried over classical physic’s convenient fiction of ‘cause and effect’.

We still are not even close to understanding consciousness but the evidence seems to point into the realm of quantum self collapsing waves. When enough wave functions intertwine in the fabric of our minds the waves self collapse without a "cause".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind