Lets Settle This

[Cinjin]

It's a tired old contradiction by the Christians (and any religion that has a really old book of brutally horrific laws): God is perfect with perfect laws and those laws do not change - the contradiction of course - some of those laws are no longer in force because of Jesus etc etc.

So, Mr. The-Old-Laws-Do-Not-Apply-Thanks-to-Jesus ( - you already know if this title applies to you)
Lets find out if you the devout christian on these forums, will really ride the Christianity wave all the way to the brutal end ...



Lets imagine for a moment that you (a bible-believing christian) had discovered the ability to travel through time. It doesn't matter that we don't actually have the ability to travel through time - or even if your god would or would not allow such a thing. The actual logistics of time travel has nothing to do with this scenario.

What does matter is that YOU suddenly find yourself 2400+ years in the past and living among the Israelite army and the entire Hebrew nation. First of all, what a huge bonus for you -- everything is true. The Bible, the Ark, the stories of King David, Joshua ... all of it, true. How awesome for you to return and throw it in the face of the atheists.

Unfortunately, it only takes a few weeks and there's a problem. You see, as much as you defend the Bible, you now realize that there's some things that have been happening that you've had a hard time swallowing. You've been asked to go into battle, and although you felt justified, cutting that woman in half was difficult, and watching those babies get bashed was tough to watch. Now, you can hear the young women screaming in the tents as your fellow soldiers enjoy the spoils of war. You know of course that this is god's will because Jesus has not yet removed the "laws" from use. It's getting tougher by the day as you make more friends out of the Hebrew and their actions continually turn your stomach.

Than one day, you hear a 6 year old boy tell his father that he's a schmuck as he runs off to play with his friends. You know that god's laws are perfect and they are in force and you also know what will soon be asked of you. Later that day, that same little boy's father hands you a stone the size of a bowling ball. He has a tear in his eye, but his son has been continually disrespectful for weeks and he, LIKE YOU, knows that god's law is perfect. He must adhere to it, just as he did when his eldest daughter was found not to be a virgin on her wedding day, despite her earnest cries that she indeed was.



What to do? What to do?

Kill the kid, rape the women, and become an avid follower of your god's perfect laws?

........................ or do you do the right thing?

[Cinjin]

Wow, I've finally done it. An OP that shut them all up. Beautiful.



I'll be damned, if I'd only known that time travel prevents christian apologetics.

[Minimalist]

Nah....the shitheads are off trying to figure out a "context" that you do not understand.

[Neo-Scholastic]

You read the biblical laws and forget that God appointed human judges to impliment them. The requirements needed to be satisfied before the punishment were so restrictive it was never actually applied much less enforced. The requirements are:

The son's rebellion is justified if the parents demand he break the law.
He must repeat rebellion after being instructed to obey.
He cannot be either deaf or lame.
He must be a "glutton and drunkard."
He must steal the money from his father to get drunk.
He has to eat the meat rare (to be a glutton).
Both parents must agree that he's rebellious.
The son must be older than the age of conscience, i.e. 12 years old.
And the parents must have a solid marriage bond, i.e. similare in "appearance, height, and voice."

The Talmud specifically states that no child was ever stoned under this law. Like many other Mosaic Laws this one (Deut 21: 18-21) was intended for instruction both prior to the first Advent and after.

[JesusShaves]

I'd like to add a few if I could.

You catch someone working on Sunday (put to death).
A friend of yours confesses that he had sex with his wife during her menstruation (spread the word and cut him off from the town).
A local man has just announced that he loves his wife and child more then his freedom but is masters arms are too weak and needs help (drive a spike in his ear to make him as a slave for life).
The man's wife is later beaten to an inch of her life and spends the next 5 days under her husbands care then finally dies a slow painful death, You catch the child fleeing town after watching his mother murdered (bring him back to his master).

[Cinjin]

You read the biblical laws and forget that God appointed human judges to impliment them. The requirements needed to be satisfied before the punishment were so restrictive it was never actually applied much less enforced. The requirements are:

The son's rebellion is justified if the parents demand he break the law.
He must repeat rebellion after being instructed to obey.
He cannot be either deaf or lame.
He must be a "glutton and drunkard."
He must steal the money from his father to get drunk.
He has to eat the meat rare (to be a glutton).
Both parents must agree that he's rebellious.
The son must be older than the age of conscience, i.e. 12 years old.
And the parents must have a solid marriage bond, i.e. similare in "appearance, height, and voice."

The Talmud specifically states that no child was ever stoned under this law. Like many other Mosaic Laws this one (Deut 21: 18-21) was intended for instruction both prior to the first Advent and after.

Woot, I should just let you know now that anything you post regarding the bible, I don't even read any more. You might actually be the most non-biblical christian I've ever heard. Most of what you post can't be substantiated for nothing, it's just your own personal take on all things apologetic.

Also, True Christians don't need the Talmud to justify the "perfect Word of God."

I still LOVE your version of Hell though big fella.

[Angrboda]

"Ooh, look! Is that an SEP field over there?"




"An SEP [Somebody Else's Problem field] is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see,
because we think that it's somebody else's problem.... The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot. If you look at it
directly you won't see it unless you know precisely what it is. Your only hope is to catch it by surprise out of the corner
of your eye.

The technology involved in making something properly invisible is so mind-bogglingly complex that 999,999,999 times
out of a billion it's simpler just to take the thing away and do without it....... The "Somebody Else's Problem field"
is much simpler, more effective, and "can be run for over a hundred years on a single torch battery."

This is because it relies on people's natural predisposition not to see anything they don't want to, weren't expecting,
or can't explain."

— Douglas Adams, Life, the Universe and Everything

[Neo-Scholastic]

… anything you post regarding the bible, I don't even read any more. You might actually be the most non-biblical christian I've ever heard. Most of what you post can't be substantiated…it's just your own personal take on all things apologetic.

Perhaps your idea of “biblical” Christianity comes from evangelicals that think they have a monopoly on interpretation. My views on biblical matters reflect those of the New Church and representatives like Dr. George Dole (http://www.gfdole.org/) And as far as I can tell, I have generally provided proof texts when requested to support my exegesis. If you choose not to read my posts, I consider it your loss.

True Christians [/i]don't need the Talmud to justify the "perfect Word of God."

Agreed. However the thought problem as presented in the OP required me to place myself in a fully Jewish context.

[libalchris]

So Chad, would you slaughter kids and split open pregnant women? Would you have participated in the stoning of the kid who blasphemed? Those are actual events that occurred in the old testament, not just laws.

[Neo-Scholastic]

As a matter of survival the ancient Isrealites needed to defend themselves against the unprovoked and aggressive violence of other nations. War presents problems in which there are no good options. Sometimes the only options are bad and worse. Suppose all the opposing men were killed while sparing the women and children. Then what? Leave them to starve? A fast death is better than a slow agonizing one. Enslave them? Besides the immorality of slavery, many of the enemy women would have shared the wickedness of men and seek vengence. Meanwhile the children would grow resentful of their captors and continue the violence. The resulting death toll could easily have been greater than the slaughter. If I was Truman, I also would have dropped the atomic bomb to bring war to an end quickly, even if it meant killing innocent people. So to answer your question as directly as possible. Yes. I would kill everyone, just as God directed, as horrible and repugnant as would seem from my perspective as a soldier.