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Hello
12th June 2009, 01:03
Post: #31
  11k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Hello
By "I don't believe in UFO's" I will assume you mean "I don't believe that UFO's are alien spacecraft".

UFO's themselves are Unidentified Flying Objects, and they do exist (I've seen many of them myself). Likewise with crop circles, they exist, but I do not believe they have a paranormal or extraterrestrial origin.
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12th June 2009, 01:29
Post: #32
    4 years membership!
RE: Hello
I believe there are Alien life forms on other planets, but I don't base my life around it. Big difference in simply faith and faith worship....Smile

Do I believe they are coming here? No....

Do I believe they exists elsewhere? Yes...

Do I believe our race will find out in my life time of an Alien species? I doubt it...lol

Do I believe one day we will find out? Maybe, just so as long as the religious nut jobs haven't killed off half of humanity and set us back 4000+ years...
Intelligence is the only true moral guide...
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12th June 2009, 11:39
Post: #33
    5 years membership!
RE: Hello
(10th June 2009 22:17)Tiberius Wrote:  
(10th June 2009 22:02)dagda Wrote:  So, when science disagrees with you, it is bad science?
No, when people claim something is science and yet provide no empirical evidence or experiments, it is bad science.

But he was subjected to experiments by a man who had a lot to lose in finding Indridason the real deal. He could not prove he was a fruad, and came away from the experience convinced that Indridason was not faking his mediumship-although thought that there was some scientific explanation for the event, but could think of none.

Anyway, the refrences:

http://www.answers.com/topic/indridi-indridason (breif account)

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/seance/78/ii.htm (indepth summary)

http://www3.hi.is/~erlendur/english/Indr...4_1989.pdf (96 page study)

The Usborne Book of the Haunted World (amounts to 2 paragraphs on Indridason)


Intrestingly about the fire account, Indridason reported it on the 24 of November at 9:45 and said it was in a lamp factory. On the 24 of November at 12 midnight (around 9:45 Icelandic time) a fire broke out in a lamp facttory in the Danish capital.

My promised case studies are taking longer than first thought. I may not be able to present them till the weekend.
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12th June 2009, 12:47
Post: #34
  11k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Hello
(12th June 2009 11:39)dagda Wrote:  But he was subjected to experiments by a man who had a lot to lose in finding Indridason the real deal. He could not prove he was a fruad, and came away from the experience convinced that Indridason was not faking his mediumship-although thought that there was some scientific explanation for the event, but could think of none.
That was beside the point. You merely claimed this, you did not provide any evidence that this happened. I will now read over your references.
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12th June 2009, 16:39
Post: #35
    4 years membership!
RE: Hello
(12th June 2009 01:03)Tiberius Wrote:  By "I don't believe in UFO's" I will assume you mean "I don't believe that UFO's are alien spacecraft".

UFO's themselves are Unidentified Flying Objects, and they do exist (I've seen many of them myself). Likewise with crop circles, they exist, but I do not believe they have a paranormal or extraterrestrial origin.

I stand corrected. Yes I don't believe that UFO's are extraterrestrials visiting our planet. Although I do love Star Trek and the idea of other life forms in the galaxy. I'm sure life must exist on other planets somewhere. It evolved here why not, but the likelihood of any of them coming here to check us out seems pretty small to me. The universe is a big place.
And crop circle are around, but I think they're made by some jokers wanting to have a good time and freak people out. It workedSmile
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13th June 2009, 11:20
Post: #36
    5 years membership!
RE: Hello
As promised, here is another case study. Some people may be wondering why I have chosen to go with a poltergeist case rather than anything particularly medium related. This is two-fold: first off, I think that the poltergeist phenomenon is related to the medium phenomenon-mediums tend to be plagued with the things; secondly the poltergeist phenomenon seems to be related to the topic of the thread.

Before I actually go into the case, I would like to take a moment to go over and explain the poltergeist phenomenon. The word means, or comes from, 'noisy ghost' in German. However, it would be a mistake to claim that poltergeist are the classic dead man walking kind of ghost. No poltergeist I know off ever seems to be related to a dead personality and a poltergeist 'attack' or haunting differs from a classic ghost haunting in a variety of ways-they tend to occur only for a limited time (with a few exceptions), tend to be much more violent and physical and tend to focus in on individual people rather than geographical locations.
This last point brings me nicely onto my theory of poltergeist. The 'noisy ghost' tends to concentrate it efforts around one to two people in the main (others get caught in the cross-fire rather than being specific victims) and occur at times of physical or mental strain eg when there is a death in the family or when a parent re-marries. This leads me to conclude as a hypothesis that poltergeist are generated by a 'psychic' function in the brain which has yet to be explored in any depth. This function is most active in mediums.

Now onto the actual case. The South Sheilds Poltergeist is perhaps the best documented in recent history. Unlike most poltergeist, 'Sammy'-as it called itself-was not shy or retiring. It violently attacked a member of the household-Marc-on various occasions-one of which was in front of the camera.

The phenomenon began in 2005. Marc, Marianne and Robert (Marianne's three year old son) lived in a house in South Sheilds. They first began to notice strange things happening such as doors closing themselves and strange noises coming from Robert's drawers. They called in the investigators in June 2006 as the phenomenon intensified.

The investigators first suspected fraud. They ruled out Marianne as she seemed genuinely terrified but thought that Marc may be involved. They latter ruled this out as they began to witnesses the phenomenon with their own eyes and photograph/record many of them. They concluded that Marc could not stage the phenomenon (e.g. scars appearing and disappearing from his body in front of the camera and independently moving objects).

What make this case so special is the sheer volume of data. At one point 20 credible witnesses saw the phenomenon occur and there is plenty of photographic and video footage. The threatening text messages Marianne received from dead phones and the mysterious disappearance of Robert for short periods of time (only to reappear raped tightly in his bed sheet in a cupboard or under a glass table) all bear testament to the often laughed at poltergeist phenomenon.

References




http://www.mikehallowell.com/shieldspolt/page4.html


http://www.mikehallowell.com/shieldspolt/page11.html


http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormali...shiel.html

Paranormal Magazine (various issues)
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13th June 2009, 14:37
Post: #37
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RE: Hello
Dagda, could you possibly point me in the direction of the footage they recorded? I can't seem to locate it on their website.
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14th June 2009, 01:35
Post: #38
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RE: Hello
My sister believes in spirits etc. She said, "Remember when we used the Ouija Board and it gave us answers?"

I had to chuckle and confess I did and truthfully added, "I made it move."

Now if I could just figure out how those knots are keep getting in my vacuum cleaner cord.
"On Earth as it is in Heaven, the Cosmic Roots of the Bible" available on the Amazon.
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14th June 2009, 01:44
Post: #39
  11k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Hello
We used a Ouija Board once and it was hilarious. The first thing we asked was "Are there any spirits present?" and the glass moved to "No". I laughed.

Then we got "in contact" with a 13 year old boy who spelled his name with no vowels, and then admitted he couldn't spell.

The only slightly odd things that happened was that we asked it where it came from and it said "saudiwarabia" (Saudi Arabia with a 'w' in the middle). I put this down to people moving the glass without knowing it, and forcing it to go to the correct letters.
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14th June 2009, 08:27
Post: #40
  6k posts! 5 years membership!
RE: Hello
Carl Jung believed in the poltergeist,and records examples he claims to have experienced in his auto biography, "Memories Dreams And Reflections". Jung also believed in "synchronicity". (meaningful coincidences)

My sister also reported poltergeist phenomenum in an old house she was renting. I have never seen any evidence of such events. However, I'm willing to believe "some things" have happened for which observers could find no reasonable explanation. (like UFO are aliens) I am not willing to accept that the cause was always the same, that it was ghosts or the psychic energy of pubescent children.

IMO the explanation of both aliens and "noisy ghosts" are classic examples of argument from personal incredulity,of which Dagda seems inordinately fond..


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From Wiki

Other explanations for poltergeists



Quote:Physical explanations

Some scientists and skeptics propose that all poltergeist activity untraceable to fraud has a physical explanation such as static electricity, electromagnetic fields, ultra-, and infrasound and/or ionized air. In some cases, such as the Rosenheim poltergeist case, the physicist F. Karger from the Max-Planck-Institut für Plasmaphysik and G. Zicha from the Technical University of Munich found none of these effects present and psi proponents claim that no evidence of fraud was ever found, even after a sustained investigation from the police force and CID. Whether this is true or not, police officers did sign statements that they had witnessed the phenomena. Other aspects of the case were hard to explain: The time service was rung hundreds of times, with a frequency impossible with the mechanical dialing phones of 1967. The municipal authority disconnected the office from the mains supply and hooked it up to a dedicated generator hoping to stabilize the current. But surges in current and voltage still occurred with no detectable cause according to Zicha and Karger. Others think poltergeist phenomena could be caused by more mundane phenomena, such as unusual air currents, air vibrations such as in acoustic levitation, or tremors caused by underground streams.{{Fact|date=November 2008 http://skepdic.com/poltergeist.html

John Hutchinson has claimed that he has created poltergeist effects in his laboratory. Also worth noting is that scientist David Turner proposes that poltergeists and ball lightning may be linked phenomena. [3] Some scientists go as far as calling them pseudo-psychic phenomena and claim that under some circumstances they are caused by obscure physical effects.[4] Parapsychologists William G. Roll and Dean Radin, physicist Hal Puthoff and head of electrical engineering at Duke University who specializes in electromagnetic field phenomena, claim that poltergeist phenomena [the movement of objects at least] could be caused by anomalies in the zero-point field, [5] this is outlined in the above article and in Roll's book Unleashed and mention is made of it in a chapter of Dean Radin's book Entangled Minds. The basic theory is that poltergeist movements are repulsive versions of the casimir effect that can put pressures on objects. Thus, anomalies in this field could conceivably move objects. This theory has also been mentioned in the current book on paranormal phenomena Science by Marie D. Jones.[6]

The theory is not complete, however, because it accounts for the movement of objects but not for the strange voices, seeming personality, and strange electrical effects displayed in some cases.

See also:

* Hutchinson effect

[edit] Self-delusion and hoaxes

Skeptics think that the phenomena are hoaxes perpetrated by the agent. Indeed, some poltergeist agents have been caught by investigators in the act of throwing objects. A few of them later confessed to faking.[citation needed]

Skeptics maintain that parapsychologists are especially easy to fool when they think that many occurrences are real and discount the hoax hypothesis from the outset. Even after witnessing first hand an agent throwing objects, psi-believing parapsychologists rationalize the fact away by assuming that the agents are only cheating when caught cheating, and at no other time. One reason given is that the agents often fake phenomena when the investigation coincides with a period of time where there appears to be little or no 'genuine' phenomena occurring. Another stated reason is that some of the phenomena witnessed would be hard to fake, even for magicians when under the watch of many people, let alone untrained children and non-magicians.[citation needed]

The current consensus among most scientists is a mixture of the self-delusion and hoax hypotheses and a bit of the caused-by-scientifically-explained-forces hypothesis [tremors, abnormal air currents etc ].

The concept does not question, or compete with, the notion of causality. Instead, it maintains that just as events may be grouped by cause, they may also be grouped by their meaning. Since meaning is a complex mental construction, subject to conscious and subconscious influence, not every correlation in the grouping of events by meaning needs to have an explanation in terms of cause and effect
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