Hi

[Jesus Pipes]

Hi, I am in an awkward situation. I have had my fill of religion and wish to, for want of a better term, 'leave Christianity.' I have lost my faith but am finding that last step of 'dechristianizing'(is that a word?) to be difficult. I have still got a bible on my bookcase and a statue of jesus on my locker. Why? I don't know what to do with them. I hope you all don't think i'm a jerk! lol

I am going to get tore up here, but I have some different advice. There is obviously some reason why you lost your faith; maybe you see that the bible is full of contradictions, maybe it's the intolerance and hypocrisy of religious people, or the corruption in the churches, or that most everything about religion seems bat shit crazy. All valid.

Organized religion has caused a lot of people to turn away from their faith. All these made up rules and policies and spouting of hate and intolerance towards people who are different or do not share their believes would make many sane people turn away. Religious people are some of the most intolerant people (you will prob seem some atheists here in a bit too), but to be religious you do not have to be a part of a religious organization.

Whether he was man or more, Jesus preached that you could have a loving relationship with God without the hate and persecution of others that did not share your same faith. He was a kind and accepting person to all others regardless of how they lived their lives. There is a lot in the bible that says the opposite, but in the bible, there was never mention of Jesus hating. Religion doesn't have to be a bad thing. The way that Jesus taught religion and how to practice your faith is a good thing. If you follow his teachings, you will be a better person to those around you.

Atheists will tell you that Christians are idiots and Christians will tell you that Atheists are idiots, so either way whichever path you follow, someone is going to think you are an idiot. Just remember, it is impossible to neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power.

[KichigaiNeko]

IUTB!

You will find you own way. People are idiots when they want YOU to follow their thinking alone and have not thoughts of your own.

[Tempus]

Just remember, it is impossible to neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power.

The vacuousness of such a statement is revealed when one realises that "higher power" can be replaced with a large number of things including - but not limited to - karma, non-detectable unicorns, and UFOs. The fact that something cannot be disproven is hardly a justification to believe (or continue believing) it.

That being said, I generally agree with your sentiment that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Still, there's also plenty of Christians and atheists who treat each other fairly, and I'd like to think I'm one of them.

[Kayenneh]

Atheists will tell you that Christians are idiots and Christians will tell you that Atheists are idiots, so either way whichever path you follow, someone is going to think you are an idiot.

No matter what you are and label yourself as, there will always be someone willing to call you an idiot



Hi, IUsedToBelieve, welcome to AF!
Don't worry, it takes some time adjusting, Rome wasn't built in one day. I kept my bible for having handy in debates, but I think Min's advice is even better. Bibles on the net don't collect as much dust and take up space in your bookshelf, that could be filled with much better fiction.

[LastPoet]

I have a bible in my bookshelf... the holy Linux bible, it has lots more facts and makes more sense than the christian one

[Brian37]

also http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com I thas several versions and walks you through the scientific and moral inconsistencies in the bible.

[Jesus Pipes]

Just remember, it is impossible to neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power.

The vacuousness of such a statement is revealed when one realises that "higher power" can be replaced with a large number of things including - but not limited to - karma, non-detectable unicorns, and UFOs. The fact that something cannot be disproven is hardly a justification to believe (or continue believing) it.

That being said, I generally agree with your sentiment that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Still, there's also plenty of Christians and atheists who treat each other fairly, and I'd like to think I'm one of them.

Right, which I choose to use higher power instead of God, because most people will automatically connect what I say to the Christian God. Most atheists believe in the big bang, but it can't be proven; just a theory. You can't disprove or prove what happened in the beginning so why is it so idiotic to just believe in something that makes sense to you?

Believing in Karma isn't such a bad thing either. If it's keeping you from being a shitty person to others, then I think it benefits society.

[Whateverist]

I was going to suggest that you have a ceremony in which you blow up the Jesus statue. Think of it as an expression of really getting what is noteworthy in Jesus' message. Do you go on reveling in the trappings of that one (perhaps) historical person's biography, or do you demonstrate that you really get his message by blowing up his statue. His may be the way but the way has nothing to do with him personally. All of his followers who paint him as divine and lust after an afterlife are stuck. You don't have to be. There are lots of 'ways' to discover what gives life meaning. Have some fun.

[Faith No More]

You can't disprove or prove what happened in the beginning so why is it so idiotic to just believe in something that makes sense to you?

Because what "makes sense" has no bearing on what is real.

[Tempus]

Right, which I choose to use higher power instead of God, because most people will automatically connect what I say to the Christian God.

I'm not sure what you mean here - what I said applies to the Christian god, higher powers, angels, ghosts, goblins, etc. No evidence against something is not a reason to believe it. Your justification seems to be mainly a pragmatic one, which I can understand. In certain circumstances, belief in something unsubstantiated may be beneficial, such as a someone having confidence in a job interview even though they're up against a lot of equally qualified competition and statistically unlikely to get the job.

Most atheists believe in the big bang, but it can't be proven; just a theory. << look up the scientific definition of 'theory'

I think grouping acceptance of the big bang by belief or lack of belief in a god is not quite as meaningful as grouping it by education level / field of expertise. From what I understand, most people educated in the areas of cosmology / astronomy / astrophysics accept the big bang because their findings and predictions are consistent with it - regardless of whether they're theistic / deistic / atheistic.

As for "just a theory", although the following quotation is being used in the context of evolution, it's applicable here:

In scientific terms, "theory" does not mean "guess" or "hunch" as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. (National Research Council. "Appendix: Frequently Asked Questions." Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, 1999. 1. Print.)

You can't disprove or prove what happened in the beginning so why is it so idiotic to just believe in something that makes sense to you?

You can't prove or disprove something therefore it's fair game to just make something up that you like? Is that what you're suggesting? I don't think that sounds like a very good idea. How about reserving judgement until finding some evidence? If no evidence surfaces all that's needed is to acknowledge that we don't know. Your position, while technically not being an argument from ignorance is close to it.

I'll just add that I'm reasonably certain that at least some things about the big bang are known. What caused the big bang, what happened before it (if there can be a 'before' without time as we know it) - these are the things that aren't known because conventional physics don't apply in these scenarios.

Also, I don't think it's "idiotic", I just think it's an ignorant sentiment that comes from poor reasoning which can be remedied by looking at the flaws in people's arguments used to reach such conclusions.

Believing in Karma isn't such a bad thing either. If it's keeping you from being a shitty person to others, then I think it benefits society.

Karma can also serve as a justification for suffering. If person X is having a rough time and we believe in karma, I think we're more likely to treat their hard times as their own fault. Clearly if person X has fallen on hard times they must have done something wrong to deserve it. This is known 'blaming the victim' - a judgement is passed on this person's misfortunes before we even know the circumstances. If we lived in a society where people believed that everyone deserved what they got, do you think that would result in a more caring, empathetic attitude toward its members? Still, I acknowledge the idea of karma can be formulated with enough caveats to adequately apply to reality as we perceive it - just like with a religious belief. Oh, what, Adam & Eve didn't really exist? Well, that was a metaphor to illustrate humanities sinful ways (it's also curious that we should inherit original sin from a metaphorical couple, but I digress). Likewise, one can formulate karma as balancing out only after death, outside of perception or awareness, being retribution from past lives, etc.

But that isn't even my real problem with such ideas. My actual problem is that if decisions about what to believe are made from such poor arguments as "you can't disprove it, therefore it's true" (which I will emphasise I realise you're not saying) that's going to lead to larger societal problems. Imagine that attitude applied to global warming, AIDs, racism, etc. Good reasoning skills are critical to making informed decisions. I think it's a mistake to assume people's poor reasoning in one area will not spill over into another.

Finally, if someone spots any errors in my brief science mentions please inform me - it's not an area I'm entirely familiar with.