A good case against God

[Jeffonthenet]

Can anyone give me a good case against the existence of God that can stand up to scrutiny?

[Tempus]

I don't make cases against things if there's no reason to believe them to begin with. There's plenty of good reasons not to accept popular arguments for gods though.

[Jeffonthenet]

(3rd July 2012 07:39)Tempus Wrote:  I don't make cases against things if there's no reason to believe them to begin with. There's plenty of good reasons not to accept popular arguments for gods though.

A statement that there is no reason to believe God exists is not an argument against God… it is just a statement which is the reason many people say that they don't know if God exists or not. Even if there were no good arguments for God, which I don't think I need to grant given arguments such as the Kalaam Cosmological argument and the Moral Argument (from the existence of objective moral values to God) it would not follow that there is no God. It may follow that, as theologians throughout history have maintained, that if we are to know God, we must know Him by personal experience or by intuition… however, how does this show that there is no God? Lastly, if you accept the existence of the external world or other, what philosophers call properly basic beliefs, you believe some things apart from arguments, and so, if God exists it could be possible to know God in the same way, apart from argument. For all of these reasons, I don't think your reply stands up to scrutiny.

[Chuff]

The burden of proof lies firmly with the theist.
Atheists have merely reached the blank slate starting point, we don't need to prove our position, it is a position of neutrality.
Now, if you wish us to give any credibility to your fantastical claims of a god, you must provide the argument in favour. Good luck

[Tempus]

(3rd July 2012 07:59)Jeffonthenet Wrote:  

(3rd July 2012 07:39)Tempus Wrote:  I don't make cases against things if there's no reason to believe them to begin with. There's plenty of good reasons not to accept popular arguments for gods though.

A statement that there is no reason to believe God exists is not an argument against God…

I'm not sure whether you understood the first sentence of my reply. It wasn't intended as an argument; it was, as you correctly identified, a statement.

(3rd July 2012 07:59)Jeffonthenet Wrote:  Even if there were no good arguments for God, which I don't think I need to grant given arguments such as the Kalaam Cosmological argument and the Moral Argument (from the existence of objective moral values to God) it would not follow that there is no God.

You're right. If there were no good arguments (or any arguments at all) it wouldn't follow that there are no gods, since arguments don't affect reality. It would follow, however, that there's no good reasons to believe there are gods. Just because there's no good reason to believe X it doesn't mean that X isn't true. Observing this fact doesn't strengthen a case for gods any more than it does for a tooth fairy.

By the way, the Kalam and moral arguments suck, frankly. The former is like a child took a five minute crash course in philosophy and came up with it.

[padraic]

Quote:Can anyone give me a good case against the existence of God that can stand up to scrutiny?

WHY?

It is the responsibility of believers to prove their claims, not to me to disprove anything.

That responsibility is called the burden of proof. Look it up.

[Forsaken]

(3rd July 2012 07:34)Jeffonthenet Wrote:  Can anyone give me a good case against the existence of God that can stand up to scrutiny?

There are no good cases against the existence of god, as there are no good cases against the existence of Santa Claus. But there are definitely good arguments against the existence of god, such as, the proof of the existence of god has never been observed, similar to the existence of Santa Claus has never been proved. That does not mean that god or Santa Claus does not exist; its only that the probability of their existence is almost negligible.

[joe terlizzi]

Ask them to prove it in their own words. Not with the aid of scripture. Usually you will end up with silence.

[Forsaken]

(3rd July 2012 09:25)joe terlizzi Wrote:  Ask them to prove it in their own words. Not with the aid of scripture. Usually you will end up with silence.

Silence? No way! They will come up with their god-of-the-gaps arguments.

[LastPoet]

(3rd July 2012 07:34)Jeffonthenet Wrote:  Can anyone give me a good case against the existence of God that can stand up to scrutiny?

Many have said it, the burden of proof is on the believer. It seems many religionists completely twist this notion around. To me s as dishonest as throwing chalk powder to the eyes of the oponent in a boxing match.