Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 6:37 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Reason and Faith
#11
RE: Reason and Faith
(July 17, 2012 at 6:22 pm)Forsaken Wrote: Got this from a theist. Having a hard time deciphering the meaning behind this. Can anyone help what the writer actually means? Looks like "this and that" and god-of-the-gaps, therefore GOD!

Quote:Faith and reason decide what is true. What we know to be true by using our reason and what we believe to be true in faith cannot contradict each other. The supernatural gift of divine faith goes beyond reason (although they do not go against reason). It stands by itself as an independent way of knowing something. Yet it is not the same as direct knowledge about something. It is like knowledge because it states that things really are a certain way. Yet it is often uncertain about why things are this way or how they can be this way.

The believer, therefore must continue to think and use reason to answer the objections that reason itself brings up. Faith then is not the result of an argument; it is not caused by reasoning. It is a supernatural gift from God. And yet a lot of reasoning comes before it and continues inside of it.

[/quote]

Actually, the argument itself has nothing to do with proving the existence of god. That part is presupposed. The given piece of bull-shit attempts epistemology. What the author is trying to do is subvert reason and establish "faith" as the superior and more reliable means of knowledge.

The question being addressed is the basis of epistemology - how do we know what we know? Do we know it by use of reason - by the use of our mental faculties to observe and deduce? Or do we know it by faith - automatic knowledge without actually knowing the how or why?

Ofcourse, the author knows that no argument can survive outright denial of the validity of reason. Notice the repeated insistence on there being no contradiction between them - inspite of all the evidence to the contrary. The attempt at subversion comes with the assertion that faith goes beyond reason. The implicit assertion here is that in any apparent contradiction between reason and faith, one should go with faith, since it transcends reason. Ironically, the reason given for superiority of faith is that its a "divine gift from god".

The moral here is not that you should abandon reason, but that you should limit it to the extent that it does not contradict your faith - and the purpose behind it is to make your mind subservient to an external authority - in this case, that of god.
Reply
#12
RE: Reason and Faith
(July 18, 2012 at 10:54 am)genkaus Wrote: The implicit assertion here is that in any apparent contradiction between reason and faith, one should go with faith, since it transcends reason.

No actually he says faith cannot contradict reason.
Reply
#13
RE: Reason and Faith
(July 18, 2012 at 12:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(July 18, 2012 at 10:54 am)genkaus Wrote: The implicit assertion here is that in any apparent contradiction between reason and faith, one should go with faith, since it transcends reason.

No actually he says faith cannot contradict reason.

Hence the use of the term "implicit".
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  At what point does faith become insanity? Fake Messiah 64 3649 May 8, 2023 at 10:37 pm
Last Post: The Architect Of Fate
  A question about Dawkins enemies of reason documentary Quill01 3 451 April 17, 2022 at 5:25 pm
Last Post: Belacqua
  The soft toys parents hope connect kids to their faith zebo-the-fat 13 1197 October 31, 2021 at 3:50 am
Last Post: Paleophyte
  The reason religion is so powerful Macoleco 344 20513 June 30, 2021 at 11:43 am
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Reason Jesus must have been a real person mrj 74 9934 March 5, 2021 at 6:44 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Baha'i faith Figbash 5 923 April 13, 2020 at 12:31 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  [Serious] Comfort in Faith at Death Shell B 142 10651 August 4, 2019 at 11:30 am
Last Post: Catholic_Lady
  Atheist who is having a crisis of faith emilsein 204 11571 April 29, 2019 at 6:41 pm
Last Post: Losty
  Faith industry Graufreud 8 815 August 8, 2018 at 6:54 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  My faith is on hold. Mystic 16 4158 May 3, 2018 at 9:40 am
Last Post: Neo-Scholastic



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)